A really interesting, calm interview with the head of AstraZeneca

[HelloThereMeHearties]

This is really worth reading, to shed some light on the whole sorry EU vaccine mess. It's in English.

Also really interesting about the mechanics of vaccine rollout.

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

@EasterIssland
I wonder why has it started all this fight against az when Pfizer did the same thing and the factory is in Belgium !! So they only care about being short and suing az?
That's not true. Pfizer reduced the capacity in its Belgian plant for a while due to remodeling and delivered less vaccine to both the UK and EU countries, thus fulfilling their obligations towards all proportionately to the best of their abilities. AZ is saying they will deliver less than 40 % of what was agreed to the EU but the UK supply won't be affected, so it's not the same thing.
And Italy is threatening to sue both Pfizer and AZ.

It seems a little silly to threaten to sue anyone. Especially the people producing and making the vaccine on a not for profit basis. If the next pandemic comes along I can't see the companies making vaccine deals with these countries if they behave like this this time. They cocked up in their procurement process, they need to look at themselves and learn lessons, not blame others.

Really interesting read. I live in France, a lot of this is being discussed on the radio etc and it's leading to a lot of angst - especially as the Institute Pasteur and Sanofi (both big French pharma) have thrown in the towels on their own failed vaccines. The rumour here is that the EU were lax in nailing down contracts to obtain the AZ and other vaccines as they fully expected to have "their own" vaccines to approve and use. This hasn't materialised, and now they are scrabbling around trying to catch up.

If the EU is the model for how a collective, global approach to sharing vaccinations would work, then we are doomed. Britain looks nimble by comparison with the lumbering 27-country bloc, where the stronger countries are required to lower their expectations in order to be vaguely equal with the weaker countries. Who wouldn't want to be in the UK rather than in France in this respect? It's the same with climate change - as long as nations are pitted against each other, self-interest will lead them to make decisions that are best for their own citizens at the expense of others. And for supposed grown-ups to stoke nationalism by boasting - looking at you Matt Hancock, but I'm sure there are plenty on this side of the channel too.

It will be interesting to see what the lawyers say about the wording of the contract to supply / agreement to "do their best"...

@CrackOpenTheGin

The EU is not showing itself in a good light over this. I can see more countries wanting to make the move away from it like the UK in the near future.

I voted remain, started to do a law degree then realised the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare. The good parts of it is free movement and trade amongst members, the rest is a nightmare.

Isn't this same as anything else, you invest and preorder first, if you delay and um and at you are further down the queue.

I don't think this is as much about the vaccines and more about the EU trying to make a point.

I keep thinking that all any government should be saying to Pfizer or Astrazeneca is 'how can we help'.

I’m no BoJo fan but I think the vaccine programme is one thing they got right. Totally agree with @ScrapThatThen govts should be helping not attempting to sue - which is laughable.

Plus kudos to AZ who have said the vaccine will also be made available at cost in perpetuity to developing countries. Given the EU are behaving like toddlers and may not approve it, oh well, imagine there is a lot of demand elsewhere.

The German newspaper coverage really paints the EU in a bad light, and then the EU's own statements do not read well to outsiders (perhaps coloured by what German commentators are saying)

The companies themselves, and commentaries from just about everyone else other than EU, are coming across as fine and sensible.

How many will want to the astra zeneka now! It's reputation ruined really after that article in Germany

Considering Hancock was slammed last year for shunning the EU vaccine scheme (no doubt by many posters on MN as well), I’d say he’s entitled to have a bit of a “told you so” moment.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/10/uk-poised-to-shun-eu-coronavirus-vaccine-scheme

Yes it seems the only thing we have got right this far is vaccine procurement. What I don't understand is if the efficacy of the AZ vaccine is questionable and it is not yet approved, why are they in such a fuss about having it

Having said this I do hope that all countries can stop bickering and work together to get this rolled out across the world or this nightmare will continue.

You have to wonder how different this would all be if it had happened in the middle of December....

But to be fair to the government and AZ it does seem simple, UK put their faith in something not ready and unproven early and expedited the process, now reaping rewards.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

How many will want to the astra zeneka now! It's reputation ruined really after that article in Germany

That article has been comprehensively rubbished.

@Dongdingdong

Fair point, on this particular point we really did get our act together much sooner aided by the fab people at Oxford university and having AZ manufacturing on our shores.

It’s in all our interests though to get as many vaccines produced globally ASAP.

The article maybe rubbished and clearly rubbished here in the UK but I'm sure many Germans will just follow the head lines.

Scathing vitriol on here when UK opted out of the eu scheme to move as one on this.

It could lead to deep civil unrest unless they sort themselves out pronto.

• my post wasn't clear I did mean on the continent not here won't take it up...

@miimblemomble, @SexTrainGlue thank you for that - it's really interesting to see how this is playing outwith the UK..

I recall Macron making some undiplomatic comments regarding Brexit. Something along the lines of 'a little country on a world scale'? I can't say I blame Matt Hancock if he wanted a little jab in return!

Since the EU signed a woolly contract, too late, and to a company which is making no profit from the vaccine, it ought to be grateful for AZ efforts. Particularly since the problem exists within their block. Threatening to behave illegally wrt Pfizer does not show the EU in a good light at all.

I do agree with a pp though that I'd expect the CEO of AZ to know the precise figures regarding efficacy in the elderly population. Sketchy indeed.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide I hope the Germans don’t want it, it will go to other countries, they can wait for their orders from other companies, the company isn’t making any profit from it.

@Motorina

It's very interesting seeing the two sides. I am obviously a big fan of France, having chosen to live here, but it's clear that they have gambled and lost in this respect. And the UK gambled and won.

It's interesting that the head of Moderna is French, and he is on record talking about how he had to leave France and go to the US to progress in his research career and start the company. On a smaller scale, DH (teacher) was talking recently to an ex-student who chose to study medicine and is leaving to follow a medical research career in the UK: his take was that if he wanted to be a good doctor, he'd stay in France; if he wants to do research, he has to leave. France produces some very, very clever people - but it doesn't value or support them sufficiently to reap the benefits in terms of R&D. The big Pharma companies outsource their research to a great extent. There is no equivalent to the Oxford team that created the vaccine here in France. University researchers can take risks that commercial researchers cannot, because the latter are driven by what is ultimately going to be profitable for the company that is paying them to do the research, and it's clear that the UK is an absolute world leader in medical research

The highest status universities here produce political scientists and engineers, not researchers. It's cultural to a great extent, reflecting the history and values of the nation and makes for excellent politicians, intellectuals and bureaucrats. But a crack team of medical researchers might have been more useful at this point - that's the luck of the draw.

I think it’s okay that the ceo does know the efficacy for the very old, he explained they didn’t trial it with the very old initially because they are weaker and AZ felt it would be less ethical to take a risk with more vulnerable people. It’s likely to be effective but he can’t say so until he has the data.

I think the UK government had been restrained. They are hardly crowing. It’s been difficult to get the full facts, they’ve been so tight lipped. Even when those facts suit them. Matt Hancock giving France, a similar sized country as a comparator wasn’t going “Na na na” he was giving the public a useful frame of reference.

We are getting a better supply from AZ because we put time, effort and £££ into building our supply chain that the EU didn’t. I don’t think the general public would be happy to have their assets handed over to the EU. It’s a bit ant and grasshopper. I think it is difficult to twist it into anything else.

The EU is rightly furious that AZ have reneged on their contractual obligations, as anyone else would be in the same situation. The EU paid €336 million to AZ as an investment in their production facilities, in order to avoid these kinds of supply issues. That's entirely separate from the price they're paying for the vaccines themselves.

AZ are only reducing supply to the EU, and are doing so by 60%. When Pfizer had to delay their supply, they did it proportionally, which is the fair and responsible thing to do. It's hardly surprising that the EU is now trying to make up the shortfall. The UK would do exactly the same thing if the shoe was on the other foot, in fact any country would. This is not an attack on the UK.

As for the rollout, that is the responsibility of each member state, not the EU. Some countries have done very well, like Denmark, other like France are much slower. This is partly because they wanted to wait for the AZ supplies for logistical and cost reasons. That was France's call, not the EU's.

There's a lot of smugness here and a great desire to stick the boot into the EU, without looking at the bigger picture. The EU is not perfect, but some of the comments here are ridiculous.

@Queenelsarules

Still can't see article, no idea why, it just shows up as click here in black instead of blue and does not do anything. Strange.

Just copy and paste the address into your browser.

But Sakura, the AZ jab being used in the UK is being made in Britain. We don't owe it to the EU to reduce domestic supplies in order to bail them out of the shit. Certainly not when they are making threats to detain the Pfizer jab we legally bought and paid for. If you want to argue that contracts matter, then then can't go ripping up the one Pfizer signed with the UK. It's not our fault that there are issues with AZ plants in Europe. Their contract was for 'best effort', which AZ is doing. The CEO said the EU will get 17% of supply when their population is 5% of those needing a vaccine. By end of Feb they will have as much as they can use in a month.
I do believe that when a company is going to bail you out a pandemic and not make any profit, it doesn't matter how much you've spent on setting up manufacturing plants, (which will always have glitches at the start), the appropriate response is 'thank you for your hard work', not threats to take legal action or break other legally binding contracts that have nothing to do with AZ.

@Sakura7 no AZ didn’t, read what the CEO said, it is down to the EU not signing the contract, they haven’t even approved it yet.

Signing the contract 3 months ago I meant