A really interesting, calm interview with the head of AstraZeneca

[HelloThereMeHearties]

This is really worth reading, to shed some light on the whole sorry EU vaccine mess. It's in English.

Also really interesting about the mechanics of vaccine rollout.

www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2021/01/26/news/interview_pascal_soriot_ceo_astrazeneca_coronavirus_covid_vaccines-284349628/

We don't know what exactly the contract says as it hasn't been published. EU are calling for it to be published.

You could trust the word of the Astra CEO but he's hardly an impartial actor here either. I don't think his word should be taken as gospel when we don't have all the facts.

I used to work in pharmaceutical supply chain and now work in robotics.

The handover from new product development and new product introduction teams to supply chain teams is difficult. It takes time. A three month delay is a lot to overcome, no matter how much money you throw at it. A lot of knowledge needs to be transferred and scaled up for large scale production. It is not as controlled or predictable as anyone would like.
Committing and investing early was a very good choice on the part of our government.

It’s true, we cannot see the contract. Even if we could, it would be complex and difficult to read. You can be sure that there would be a lot couching language and transfers of risk. It will amount to what the ceo said in the interview: we’ll make our best efforts to use your 300m to set up a supply chain as quickly as we can in good faith.

Remember, AZ is making no profit off of this.

I live in France, a lot of this is being discussed on the radio etc and it's leading to a lot of angst

Interesting.

Irish MNers, is this being discussed Irish media? I don't think so?

Ireland has been screwed by the EU. They asked if they could bring in a supply of the Oxford vaccine to have it ready to roll out as soon as it is a approved, and were sharply told no.

Meanwhile Germany is ordering vaccines from Russia.. One rule for EU countries, another for Germany it seems.

Irish MNers, is this being discussed Irish media? I don't think so?

Yes, but not in an angsty way.

We’re a lot more annoyed with our useless government than the EU.

We all had an opportunity to sort our own vaccines. Surprise, surprise, the Irish government, who never do anything actually difficult, didn’t take it.

This twitter thread shows the contract:

twitter.com/BarristersHorse/status/1353905785651273728

I voted remain, started to do a law degree then realised the EU is a bureaucratic nightmare

Yes, and pretty much unaccountable to its citizens - the taxpayers who pay for this massive and inefficient bureaucracy.

@MintyMabel
"The MHRA has had the good fortune to be working side by side with the EMA (based in London) allowing it to tap in to the best knowledge in the continent."

That's rubbish. The EMA was moved to Holland after the Brexit vote. I understand though that some of their staff stayed and moved to the MRHA. It was originally based in London as many of the experts the EMA needed to attract are typically English speakers and they are having that problem now in Holland in struggling to get the expertise

Trying to get supplies in before approval was just pointless grandstanding from Donnelly (our health minister). It’s not like it would have made much difference.

Everyone needs to calm down, approve the vaccine and work through the problems. I understand that tempers are frayed right now. There’s a lot at stake.

Irish MNers, is this being discussed Irish media? I don't think so?

Not sure why you'd think that, it's a major story here. Some reactions on this forum:

www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058153426

In general I'd say more people see it as AstraZeneca's fault, but they don't think the EU have handled it well either.

thanks op its a good article, @EasterIssland if you just select the text copy/search you can get it

@RedToothBrush

Its a fair point to say that the uk has been conducting a live experiment in many respects. We are guinea pigs!

Its a new drug.

The uk has made a calculated gambled on the basis of known facts but there are still a huge number we don't know and are only just finding out.

No. The Belgian Prime minister said that we were being treated like guinea pigs in the UK and that the EU was conducting 'extra tests' to make sure the Oxford vaccine was safe.

Which was nonsense. It was a cheap anti-UK smear.

[quote cathyandclare]This twitter thread shows the contract:

twitter.com/BarristersHorse/status/1353905785651273728[/quote]
That's the contract with Curevac, not with AstraZeneca.
Obviously, they will likely be similar, but not necessarily the same.

(This one says "in the case of delays to the anticipated availability of the Product, the contractor aims to allocate the doses of the Product fairly across the demand of doses" - which doesn't seem to be the case if the EU is the only one whose supply is cut)

In general I'd say more people see it as AstraZeneca's fault

But why, when it's clearly the EU's fault?

The MHRA has had the good fortune to be working side by side with the EMA (based in London) allowing it to tap in to the best knowledge in the continent.

I really don't think it helps when people are posting bollocks like this on MN.

Unless there is a bombshell in the city tract...which seems u likely given what was signed elsewhere....it seems like the EU is trying to bully and deflect blame

Contract

That's rubbish. The EMA was moved to Holland after the Brexit vote

Yes. After decades of gaining expertise working with them. That expertise is still there. But it won't be forever.

But why, when it's clearly the EU's fault?

We don't know whose fault it is without seeing the contract!

We're not just blindly supporting the head of Astrazeneca like so many here are doing (I get it, most posters are British, and he's saying what you want to hear). We're keeping an open mind til we get some solid information.

Is there any criticism of how German got away with ordering lots of extra vaccines for its own use?

We're not just blindly supporting the head of Astrazeneca like so many here are doing (I get it, most posters are British, and he's saying what you want to hear). We're keeping an open mind til we get some solid information.

@Sakura7 solid information? Are you seriously accusing the head of AstraZeneca of lying in that interview?

I think the EU are entitled to know where their money went but if it got spent on training and development and there were still issues which were beyond AZ control (like yield problems) then the EU needs to stop shouting the odds.
I know they've spent a lot of money but relatively speaking it's not that much. The UK has paid a lot more to get our supply set up and we still had glitches. Only we've had longer to get them fixed.
Is it not just possible that the EU have tried to get this done on the cheap and it's all gone tits up because of that, along with delay in approval and rather than take the flak, they are blaming AZ.
They just don't want to look like they've fucked up in a month where Britain seems to be doing well.

Is there any criticism of how German got away with ordering lots of extra vaccines for its own use?

Not that I’ve seen, no. Personally I don’t know much about it.

But we’re not jumping up and down waiting to pounce on EU members here, the way certain people in the UK seem to be. 🤷‍♀️

Germany also stopped sales of PPE abroad when Italy was piling bodies in the street during the first wave iirc.

I don't blame Germany for ordering their own vaccines. I think that when push comes to shove every country will prioritise its own citizens over EU unity and I don't blame them for that.

What does annoy me a bit is Germany going its own way but not admitting that it is because the EU has completely screwed it up.

I'm not sure about the British patriotism issue. I think we're rightly proud of Oxford Uni's achievements but AZ is an Anglo-Swedish company so is also European. Why isn't the EU also proud of AZ?

@Dongdingdong What?

The EU have one position, AZ have a different one. Why are you jumping to conclusions and assuming the EU are the ones at fault or lying?

I know a large section of the British public takes great joy in blaming the EU for everything and anything, but some of us prefer to wait for the facts.