My family have all had the vaccine and are now hanging out

[garlictwist]

My parents both have had the vaccine and my two sisters and their husbands as they are all nhs workers.

I prob won't get it for a long time as I am not in any of the groups.

Now they are all hanging out, talking about how they are going to celebrate my nephews birthday etc and I feel really left out.

Is this how it's going to be from now on?

[Sheena99]

Exactly. The vaccination only stops you from being severely ill, it does not stop infection or transmission, so rules still need to be followed. There is no immunity involved.

[PurpleDaisies]

But the worst bit is you can still spread to others after vaccination.

This is not a fact.
Stop spreading misinformation. We just don’t know yet.

[PurpleDaisies]

@Sheena99

Exactly. The vaccination only stops you from being severely ill, it does not stop infection or transmission, so rules still need to be followed. There is no immunity involved.

WE DO NOT KNOW THIS.

[Bebethany]

I agree with one of the earlier posts?

He original post that has provoked such an outpouring of thoughts was put up out of mischief!! Clearly bored!

[ElliFAntspoo]

@garlictwist

My parents both have had the vaccine and my two sisters and their husbands as they are all nhs workers.

I prob won't get it for a long time as I am not in any of the groups.

Now they are all hanging out, talking about how they are going to celebrate my nephews birthday etc and I feel really left out.

Is this how it's going to be from now on?

So do they not understand that they can still catch the virus, carry it, and infect other people, or do they just not give a F?

[ElliFAntspoo]

For those who say, we do not know to be a fact, we do not know for a fact that masks protect people, nor do we know for a fact that the majority of people who have died died with any connection to Covid at all. Everything is a preponderance of probability and a hedge on the side of caution.

If you believe that once you have a vaccine you are free to choose which rules you follow and which you don't, that puts you in the same category as people who gather for lock-ins and people who go to house parties.

[PurpleDaisies]

I absolutely believe we should err on the side of caution until we know whether vaccines affect transmission @ElliFAntspoo

People should not be stating that vaccines do not stop transmission as a fact. We do not know that. We need to behave as if they have no effect on transmission until we have enough data. Sharing inaccurate information helps no one.

[MTBer2021]

Someone started a thread about this two tier scenario recently, saying this will happen and the unvaccinated will get left behind as the vaccinated act differently regardless of the rules. The OP in that thread got slated! Interesting to see this case of where exactly what they predicted and feared is already happening. :(

[BatleyTownswomensGuild]

Unless they've all had both doses, they have not 'had the vaccine'. The vaccine is not proven to work until 2 weeks after the second dose.

[Suzi888]

@QuantumQuality

Did they not read the information they were given about continuing to stick to the rules? Are they a bit dim?

^^

[PurpleDaisies]

The vaccine is not proven to work until 2 weeks after the second dose.

What do you mean “work”? It’s not a binary situation of no protection then suddenly you have full immunity. That’s not to say that people can act any differently after vaccination. They shouldn’t but in reality, they will have some protection much earlier than three weeks after the second dose.

[ElliFAntspoo]

@PurpleDaisies

The vaccine is not proven to work until 2 weeks after the second dose.

What do you mean “work”? It’s not a binary situation of no protection then suddenly you have full immunity. That’s not to say that people can act any differently after vaccination. They shouldn’t but in reality, they will have some protection much earlier than three weeks after the second dose.

What they mean is that in testing there was no measurable effect by the body's immune system until the first dose had been in the body for 14 days. Bell curve measurement, not exactly the same in every person. Then when your body starts to mount its response to the first doe of the vaccine, you need to inject more vaccine so that your body continues to have more vaccine to attack, otherwise it kills off the vaccine and doesn't work so well. Israelis reckon this second booster shot need to be given in week 3, and so does the manufacturer, but what the F do they know, eh? 3 weeks, 12 weeks, what's the difference. You can pay scientists to tell you anything. That's what they are paid for.

[ElliFAntspoo]

@PurpleDaisies

I absolutely believe we should err on the side of caution until we know whether vaccines affect transmission *@ElliFAntspoo*

People should not be stating that vaccines do not stop transmission as a fact. We do not know that. We need to behave as if they have no effect on transmission until we have enough data. Sharing inaccurate information helps no one.

At what point anywhere through the pandemic has any of the information that has been given to the public been accurate?

There is absolutely no evidence that any of the available vaccines prevent people form catching, carrying or infecting others with the virus. So pretending it is in some way less dangerous for people who are vaccinated to be out in our society is at best completely misleading, and at worst an downright lie.

Telling people that they can still catch and infect others is required in order to get through to these ignorant idiots that they have rules they have to follow like the rest of us and their actions have the power to kill people.

[PurpleDaisies]

What they mean is that in testing there was no measurable effect by the body's immune system until the first dose had been in the body for 14 days.

You are talking about two weeks after the first dose. That poster was talking about the second dose. That poster was saying the vaccine “doesn’t work” until two weeks after the second dose. That was what I was addressing.

There is absolutely no evidence that any of the available vaccines prevent people form catching, carrying or infecting others with the virus.

Actually there is early data from Israel showing reduced transmission after two doses but it’s far too preliminary to be relied upon. We need more study.

So pretending it is in some way less dangerous for people who are vaccinated to be out in our society is at best completely misleading, and at worst an downright lie.

Over and over I’ve said everyone needs to follow the rules until we have data that shows otherwise.

Telling people that they can still catch and infect others is required in order to get through to these ignorant idiots that they have rules they have to follow like the rest of us and their actions have the power to kill people.

Telling people things we do not know to be true plays right into the hands of anti vax, anti lockdown conspiracy theorists. We have to make the case based upon what we do know to be true- we hope that vaccines will lower transmission but at the moment we do not know that so everyone must act as if they can still catch and transmit covid.

[earnshaw47]

slightly confused, we are told not to ring for an appointment for vaccine and yet others have said that they rang nhs website etc and got appointment there and then, they are not over 80 or even over 70

[ElliFAntspoo]

Telling people things we do not know to be true plays right into the hands of anti vax, anti lockdown conspiracy theorists. We have to make the case based upon what we do know to be true- we hope that vaccines will lower transmission but at the moment we do not know that so everyone must act as if they can still catch and transmit covid.
We're way too far down the road to begin telling people the truth and expect them to be able to exhibit common sense, form rational judgements and exhibit responsibility. That premise fell apart 9 months ago when we downright lied to people about the efficacy of masks, the transmission routes of the virus and the duration of the pandemic.

If we had told the truth from the beginning we may have had a chance of encouraging the development of common sense and responsibility, but as it is, threats and rules are the only course of action open to us, and making those threats as abrupt and in your face as possible in the only way to get them into people's skulls.

OP has demonstrated that even what we are supposed to believe to be intelligent people are quite ignorant of both the dangers and the rules, or more likely just inclined to act like...

[PurpleDaisies]

We're way too far down the road to begin telling people the truth and expect them to be able to exhibit common sense, form rational judgements and exhibit responsibility.

It’s obvious having a reasonable discussion with someone who thinks spouting lies and half truths is acceptable is totally impossible.

[ElliFAntspoo]

@PurpleDaisies

We're way too far down the road to begin telling people the truth and expect them to be able to exhibit common sense, form rational judgements and exhibit responsibility.

It’s obvious having a reasonable discussion with someone who thinks spouting lies and half truths is acceptable is totally impossible.

It cannot be a lie, because there is no evidence either way.
At most it is a reframing of advice to achieve a certain outcome, while concealing the actual lack of underlying evidence. That is EXACTLY what every single decision and pronouncement made by the powers that be have been. Any you pick on a single pet peeve and claim it to be a lie and inherently dishonest? You offer no evidence to support your contention that people will keep each other safe if you try to explain to them the ambiguities and uncertainties in the data. But the evidence is overwhelming that they do not have the interest nor the ability to understand, and will not act in any way other than in their own self interest. That being the case, the most sensible course of action from a safety point of view is to frame the information in a way that makes it clear that their own self interest is to keep the people they say they love safe, and maybe help keep others that they do not know safe too.

[ManyMaybes]

Vulnerable people that immediately start socialising after their vaccine are dreadful hypocrites. The young and healthy have allowed their lives to be ruined to protect the vulnerable so any vulnerable and vaccinated person now breaking the rules should have a good think about the kind of person they really are. Are they really that selfish?

[JengaJanga]

They are NHS workers and doing this?

I highly doubt it !

And if they are, they should be sacked!!!

[PurpleDaisies]

It cannot be a lie, because there is no evidence either way.

It is a lie to say we know that the vaccines do not prevent transmission.

How will you explain all the senior scientists making the point that we don’t yet know what the effect on transmission is? Plenty are on record as saying they expect the vaccines will be shown to reduce transmission but be just need data. I can remember both Jonathan van tam and Patrick Vallance saying so at the press conferences very recently.

I have a much higher opinion of the British people than you do. People have followed the rules amazingly well despite the dreadful handling of the pandemic by politicians by in large.

[PurpleDaisies]

I will add to my previous post that I don’t think most posters are lying about transmission. They’ve just been misinformed or got the wrong end of the stick.

Deliberately putting out a public health message with misleading information is morally wrong, especially as we’re expecting that it will be shown that vaccines reduce transmission.

[ElliFAntspoo]

Deliberately putting out a public health message with misleading information is morally wrong
Reminds me of the very first public announcement -There is no need to wear masks. There is absolutely no evidence that masks can prevent you catching Covid. A categoric LIE right from the offset.

...we’re expecting that it will be shown that vaccines reduce transmission.
A supposition based on no scientific evidence.

People have followed the rules amazingly well despite the dreadful handling of the pandemic by politicians by in large.
Granted some people have done what they are told, but it doesn't take many to ignore what they are told to spread a virus and kill people. Especially if those people believe themselves erroneously to be immune, and therefor don't give a sh!t about the rest of the community around them. Have you seen how many people are out in the streets in our towns and citied. All ambling to work I'm sure.

[Againstmachine]

@JengaJanga

They are NHS workers and doing this?

I highly doubt it !

Why do you doubt it, I know plenty of NHS workers who don't follow guidelines.