Deaths 'with' COVID-19

[Gettinggrumpier]

I agree the death rate is shocking. However, what would the UK death rate be, if the figures did not include situations such as a 97 year old with dementia, who fell and went into hospital, tested positive for COVID but was asymptomatic, who then passed away.

Do other countries record these types of deaths in their figures.
What is the percentage of elderly people in each country? Without recording figures in the same way, how can the media continually claim we are one of the countries with the highest death rate.

Isn't it extremely well known that in normal times, if you are elderly, fall and go into hospital, the chances of not recovering are very high.

I do so wish that more context is put into the daily headline figures and that mainstream media reaching for the quick, simple attention grabbing headline and instead provide more nuanced reporting.

OP I take it you have not lost anyone close to you? If you had you would not be as blasé about searching for wriggle room in the death figures. STOP minimising this everyone.

My beloved father, who was fit and healthy, died of (and very much NOT "with", my god how much I hate that phrase) Covid a few weeks ago. He should have had many years of living still in front of him. He suffered a horrendous death preceded by weeks of agony in hospital. He didn't deserve this as he was so careful about staying safe but it managed to get him anyway. That's the risk we all take when case numbers are allowed to rise so high.

Imagine your own previously fit and healthy loved one in hospital with double pneumonia gasping for each breath, day after day. He suffered for weeks before he died, he was desperate to get better, he was terrified, and we were not able to visit to give him any comfort save for the last 2 days. I will be haunted all my life by this.

It is clear on any measure that there are large numbers of people who have died and WILL STILL DIE of this, a large number of whom would not have died this year, and maybe not for many years, if it had not have been for this government's mishandling of the situation. FFS read the Excess Death charts correctly, there are lots of scientists who have explained this if you care to look. Stop trying to make yourself feel better, face up to reality.

I'm so sorry, @BiscuitLess, for the loss of your dear father.

I've just stated on another thread that I've seen numerous health board letters in Scotland that had to be released under freedom of information act. In everyone there is a minuscule (< 0.5%) of deaths were Covid was the only contributor. We will never know (I don't think) how much of a role Covid played in the 100k deaths. I know the 2nd week of this month in Scotland we are in negative excess deaths (less than average). Also the numbers for other causes like heart attack etc are unusually low. Something strange is happening with the recording and/or sharing of the data. For what purpose, who knows.

In Scotland the total deaths in 2020 were ranked 10th in all years since 1990. That's the official ONS figures.

So sorry @BiscuitLess. The with/of miminising winds be up too and I haven't lost a loved one.
People think that those with pre existing conditions must be at deaths door but they aren't.
Pre existing conditions include really minor things that don't affect life expectancy. I have asthma so would be a with rather than of. YetI have never had a hospital admission. I have only been prescribed oral steroids once in my life when heavily pregnant with a chest infection. I don't qualify fir the vaccine early.

My Nan died last April in a care home. Her main cause of death on certificate was Covid-19. She was never tested 🤷‍♀️

It is entirely possible for a patient to turn from positive to negative during the disease course and still die of the disease - sadly negative test doesn't mean they have recovered, just that particular antibodies aren't being produced any more.

@BiscuitLess

OP I take it you have not lost anyone close to you? If you had you would not be as blasé about searching for wriggle room in the death figures. STOP minimising this everyone.

My beloved father, who was fit and healthy, died of (and very much NOT "with", my god how much I hate that phrase) Covid a few weeks ago. He should have had many years of living still in front of him. He suffered a horrendous death preceded by weeks of agony in hospital. He didn't deserve this as he was so careful about staying safe but it managed to get him anyway. That's the risk we all take when case numbers are allowed to rise so high.

Imagine your own previously fit and healthy loved one in hospital with double pneumonia gasping for each breath, day after day. He suffered for weeks before he died, he was desperate to get better, he was terrified, and we were not able to visit to give him any comfort save for the last 2 days. I will be haunted all my life by this.

It is clear on any measure that there are large numbers of people who have died and WILL STILL DIE of this, a large number of whom would not have died this year, and maybe not for many years, if it had not have been for this government's mishandling of the situation. FFS read the Excess Death charts correctly, there are lots of scientists who have explained this if you care to look. Stop trying to make yourself feel better, face up to reality.

Yes, my mother died in her early 60s years ago. I understand your immense grief and shock, and I'm sorry about what your father went through and the effect on you and your family of not being allowed to be with him.

Querying the make up of the death with COVID figures is not to hurt you or others.

However, there must be a realisation that as the figures have such an impact on all of us, their accuracy, whenever possible, is vitally important too, even more so when each figure relates to someone's loved one.

I am extremely mindful of my social responibilities, to the point of not seeing anyone on Christmas day. I am doing all I can to keep myself and others safe. To ensure that fewer people have to endure what happened to your beloved father. It is not just down to the government having better policies, it is also down to everyone having much more care to those around them and acting accordingly.

@FirstladyKirkman

My Nan died last April in a care home. Her main cause of death on certificate was Covid-19. She was never tested 🤷‍♀️

I've heard of several such cases, and cases where tests were negative but the death was still put down as Covid.

This needs to be investigated.

Doctors don't just put that as the cause to make their lives easier. What on earth would be the point? They repeatedly and wearily state that they do not fill in certificates fraudulently. If covid is named as a cause, then it is their professional clinical judgement that covid is a cause. People don't have to test positive to die of Covid.

Plus there's that small matter of the excess deaths, which remarkably matches the number of those with covid on death certificates.

Occam's razor. Stop seeing conspiracy where there is none. Stop minimising. Over 100k people have died of Covid and we need to live with that fact, which is out there for all to see.

I'm gonna have to say it - 100k have not died of Covid.

Would you like to offer proof for that statement? Because the Office for National Statistics and Public Health England would care to differ.

@Madhairday

And yes, if you're questioning all these covid deaths then please explain the cause of the 80,000 excess deaths in the UK over the past 10 months. What disease did all those people die of, all this people who presented with similar symptoms and died in the same way?

Baffling.

Yes quite.

I am so sick of covid denial.

What did they die of then Pootle?

Pootle, the world-renowned epidemiologist, weighs in with her expert opinion. Everyone can now relax!