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Original poster

Deaths 'with' COVID-19

90 replies

Gettinggrumpier · 26/01/2021 18:05

I agree the death rate is shocking. However, what would the UK death rate be, if the figures did not include situations such as a 97 year old with dementia, who fell and went into hospital, tested positive for COVID but was asymptomatic, who then passed away.

Do other countries record these types of deaths in their figures.
What is the percentage of elderly people in each country? Without recording figures in the same way, how can the media continually claim we are one of the countries with the highest death rate.

Isn't it extremely well known that in normal times, if you are elderly, fall and go into hospital, the chances of not recovering are very high.

I do so wish that more context is put into the daily headline figures and that mainstream media reaching for the quick, simple attention grabbing headline and instead provide more nuanced reporting.

OP posts:
Wildswim · 26/01/2021 21:41

@TheDailyCarbunkle

There are two cases that I know of where the patient tested negative for covid (in one case the patient had two negative tests) and when they died their deaths were recorded as covid deaths. I did try to find out why that was but couldn't get any answers. I have no idea if other deaths are being recorded in a similar way, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
Yes I know of cases like this too - negative tests but deaths still being recorded as Covid. It's definitely happening.
BonnieDundee · 26/01/2021 23:34

Yes I know of cases like this too - negative tests but deaths still being recorded as Covid. It's definitely happening.

I've heard of a couple of instances of this from friends too

kurtrussellsbeard · 27/01/2021 06:01

Are all these people who have stories of non covid deaths being registered as covid deaths doctors? How else would they know?

StepOutOfLine · 27/01/2021 06:34

The adapnation figure is wrong. Hardly surprising from some yoga blogger or whatever he is who refers to his partner as "the wifey"Hmm Careful whose statistics you read.

The govt and ONS are currently reporting excess deaths at being around 99,000.

TheoriginalLEM · 27/01/2021 06:50

My mum died before Christmas, she had broken her hip after a call at a care home. She was recovering well but then she died. She didn't have covid. This thread is upsetting. Yes she was 85 but she was still my mum ffs. Just like all of the other people that died without loved ones around them because of this bastard disease.

Please stop minimalising this. I had to speak with the coroner who told me they are overwhelmed. I had to wait over a month before i could have mums funeral.

A friend's mum died from covid that she caught from hospital, 67 , had cancer - does she not count either??? She cannot have a funeral until the END oF MARCH because the crematorium is booked up until then.

If someone dies "with covid" they die alone, possibly after weeks struggling in hospital. These people are peoples parents, wives and husbabs and they matter

What if you are right and they would have died anywayHmm that takes our spectacular 'world beating' total below 1000000 deaths. So whar

Fucking hate these threads. Stay the fuck at home and follow the rules ffs

Madhairday · 27/01/2021 09:21

@TheoriginalLEM I am so very sorry for your loss. Flowers

I agree with you. I am so done with these threads spreading misinformation and using the deaths of real people to try and feed into the lockdown scepticism narrative. We see right through it and we call this out. It's not on and it's dangerous.

Jsnn · 27/01/2021 09:37

@GenevaMaybe

Is anyone on this thread a statistician or epidemiologist?
I am a data scientist which is basically a statistician (education is 50% statistics 50% programming) who codes. Excess deaths is a poor metric. The year to year variation is too high to just take an average and say anything above that average is due to covid. Like I said 2015 was a similar year in terms of death rates and there was no pandemic.

Even if excess deaths was a reliable metric (it's not) you also can't separate deaths from covid and deaths from intervention (lockdowns, modified access to medical care).

There are ways to make adjustments to make a higher quality guess at the deaths figure but just comparing raw figures to 5 year average will give a poor estimate.

Reality is this is very hard figure to guess and will take a very high quality analysis to get a high quality estimate and research teams will probably be debating the actually fatality numbers for years maybe even decades.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 27/01/2021 09:58

How are the figures for 2015 and 2020 similar?
2015 was exceptionally cold and there were issues with flu jab .
Also we have had restrictions to keep these figures down.

Deaths 'with' COVID-19
Northernsoulgirl45 · 27/01/2021 10:02

Sorry I took 2015 from your post but it was 2018 which was higher due to cold and flu etc.

raviolidreaming · 27/01/2021 10:23

Many medics were reluctant in the first wave - before mass testing - to say that there was definitely no covid-19 as that had implications for last offices and funeral services and could potentially expose people if they were wrong. It didn't mean that covid-19 went down on the death certificate as cause, but I know some people will have thought it did: there was a lot of information to take in whilst trying to grieve.

Northernsoulgirl45 · 27/01/2021 10:55

@Jsnn 2025 was much lower than 2020

Northernsoulgirl45 · 27/01/2021 10:55

God I can't type today. 2015

Veuvestar · 27/01/2021 11:07

Do you honestly think that if someone is in hospital with Covid for a long time, then their cause of death isn’t written as Covid because they haven’t had a test within 28 days? Ffs!

titchy · 27/01/2021 11:10

@Veuvestar

Do you honestly think that if someone is in hospital with Covid for a long time, then their cause of death isn’t written as Covid because they haven’t had a test within 28 days? Ffs!
Yes the death certificate will have CV named, but they don't count in the daily figures. Hence why the numbers with CV named on death certificate is higher.
MrsFrisbyMouse · 27/01/2021 11:16

The number of deaths isn't the only thing we need to be looking at. There needs to be attention given to the number of hospital admissions above 'normal'. These extra admissions to hospital have taken a huge toll on the resources of the NHS, both in the short term (in terms of life saving care), but also in the longer term (in terms of rehabilitation services.)

Veuvestar · 27/01/2021 11:23

Titchy- no
The 28 day rules was designed as a cut off for people who were in a car crash
You honestly think that people who go straight from a Covid ward to the morgue don’t get Covid as their cause of death ?

raviolidreaming · 27/01/2021 11:31

You honestly think that people who go straight from a Covid ward to the morgue don’t get Covid as their cause of death?

That isn't what Titchy said.

LastTrainEast · 27/01/2021 11:34

"Yes I know of cases like this too - negative tests but deaths still being recorded as Covid. It's definitely happening" On youtube right?

Mumisnotmyonlyname · 27/01/2021 11:37

Yes I don't think we should be trying to minimise the death statistics.

Seriouslymole · 27/01/2021 11:42

@TheDailyCarbunkle

There are two cases that I know of where the patient tested negative for covid (in one case the patient had two negative tests) and when they died their deaths were recorded as covid deaths. I did try to find out why that was but couldn't get any answers. I have no idea if other deaths are being recorded in a similar way, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.
I also know of two cases where this has happened within a care home because it then avoided the necessity of a post mortem. If someone was marked down as a covid death, they did not need to be subject to a PM.
Veuvestar · 27/01/2021 11:43

I’m lost!

rbe78 · 27/01/2021 11:55

By the excess deaths measure we actually passed 100,000 last week...
www.ft.com/content/5f7b58fb-97ad-4fef-bbc9-b71d328c6700

ThePricklySheep · 27/01/2021 12:00

@Raisinandcheese

Excess deaths here:

adapnation.io/covid-insights/

so atm, around 6,000 compared with the last 5 years average.

Where are you getting 6k from in there please? This is what I see?
Deaths 'with' COVID-19
ThePricklySheep · 27/01/2021 12:03

Oh I see raisin has said it was a miscalculation.

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