Primary schools back sooner than expected?

[deeplybaffled]

It’s hard to know what to believe, but PHE now seem to be suggesting that primary schools can safely return after half term - which seems to contradict all other recent reports and government comments
focussing around Easter!

Didn't the ONS publish data this week that showed teachers, female teachers in particular are no more likely than anyone else to have died from Covid, some professions were much higher up the scale and they are still operational, so closures cannot be about risk to teachers regardless of MN. If they are about community transmission and the data shows on 3% of primary schools had outbreaks that's pretty low risk for community transmission.

@HorseOfPhillipMoss

Didn't the ONS publish data this week that showed teachers, female teachers in particular are no more likely than anyone else to have died from Covid, some professions were much higher up the scale and they are still operational, so closures cannot be about risk to teachers regardless of MN. If they are about community transmission and the data shows on 3% of primary schools had outbreaks that's pretty low risk for community transmission.

Yes this is correct.

@Delatron

It’s time to prioritise children. They have suffered enough.

If they could even get back for a few weeks. Then the nature break for Easter. Then we’re in to warmer weather and far further ahead in the vaccination program.

Keep everything else closed until then. We won’t have the silly eat out to help out or pubs open like last year when schools were still closed.

Agree with this so much. Our kids have been sacrificed enough.

@MillieEpple

We recieved our lateral flow tests at our primary school last week. For staff testing. I think it will help.i know they arent 100% accurate but if a few staff get early notice we can close to stop further spread so school wont be such a big transmitter. They are early - we were told they come in time for easter.

We got them this week too - twice a week optional testing apparently. Starting next week I think. I'm wfh due to my role (can do what I'm currently doing at home better) but everyone else is in full time and they will start testing this weekend iirr.

Mind you, that will help reduce spread - won't help individuals who catch it, especially if vulnerable.

Kids are usually asymptomatic so they really don’t have accurate data on school outbreaks at all.

But sure, pressure the government to fling open the doors for the next wave and lockdown rather than getting things properly under control. No wonder we have the worst death rate of any country - we’re a nation of selfish idiots.

@brusselsprout5 schools ARE closed for most of us and it's BLOODY stressful!

Our primary have got their lat tests in for teachers.

Get reception, 1, 4 and 6 back in after half term. Then 2,3,5 to join after Easter.

@LucyLockdown

Kids are usually asymptomatic so they really don’t have accurate data on school outbreaks at all.

But sure, pressure the government to fling open the doors for the next wave and lockdown rather than getting things properly under control. No wonder we have the worst death rate of any country - we’re a nation of selfish idiots.

Even if the dc are asymptomatic anyone actually catching it is included in the numbers!

@HorseOfPhillipMoss

Didn't the ONS publish data this week that showed teachers, female teachers in particular are no more likely than anyone else to have died from Covid, some professions were much higher up the scale and they are still operational, so closures cannot be about risk to teachers regardless of MN. If they are about community transmission and the data shows on 3% of primary schools had outbreaks that's pretty low risk for community transmission.

Yep. Production and manufacturing (my industry) very high up the list but no one cares about us, we're invisible apparently. And don't tell me it's easy to social distance in a warehouse/factory, anyone who thinks that has probably never been in one. As I said, more cases at my workplace than at my DS's school.

All this ‘our kids have suffered enough’ and ‘our kids have been sacrificed’ just makes me laugh. Get a grip. The overwhelming majority of kids are fine. They’re learning from home not being sent down the mines ffs.

There is no doubt in my mind that schools are safe, it’s just the mixing that happens there

That is a peculiarly meaningless statement.

It’s time to prioritise children. They have suffered enough.

Whilst it's all been rubbish and not what anyone would want, at least the children are - on the whole - safe and secure, with loved ones, vulnerable in school and being monitored, etc.

No, it's not ideal.

But do we prioritise a child's need to socialise over a vulnerable teacher/school staff or vulnerable family member's right to stay healthy?
Do we prioritise the child over the need to keep the NHS from being overwhelmed?

The data released before Christmas showed under 12's were twice as likely to be index case in a household.

Compared to 12-17yo which was 7 times as likely.

So yes, there is scientific evidence to suggest opening primary schools will have a much lower effect on the R number than opening schools completely as a "open schools" policy.

It will be even safer if they look at all the perfectly sensible suggestions made before last September and open them carefully in a limited way.

Whilst open for those most in need we've still seen a drop in case rates and the R number.
They need to look at area by area and the number of kids in schools in that area to see if schools where 60-70% of children are attending have a lower case rate decline compared to areas where only 5-10% are attending.

They then need to use this data to establish what percentage of attendance has the lowest chance of raising R (so max attendance possible) and out in blended learning and rotas. Probably alongside a suspension of certain areas of the curriculum (so maths and English to remain and probably science/IT) so those vital skills are learnt. Eg maths and English are taught f2f in school and then pupils get set projects to cover history etc and improve those skills with packs sent home for those days they are home learning.

There is so much scope to do this well and do this right. And as much as this will place pressure on teachers I know they've risen to the current challenges and will rise again. Contrary to popular belief I don't know any teacher who doesn't want to teach their pupils - they just want to do it safely.

Even if the dc are asymptomatic anyone actually catching it is included in the numbers!

People who’ve got it with no symptoms so who never get tested are included in the numbers? Don’t be silly.

Anyone believing the ‘the teachers seem to get it but not the pupils’ narrative at this stage is a special kind of stupid.

For parents who want schools to go back fully after half term, would you want any safety measures in place or schools to go back to normal? Would you accept masks, which other countries have brought in for at least the equivalent of our KS2 pupils.

Because I can’t see much difference between a class of Y6 pupils and a class of Y7 pupils

Good - this needs to happen! Primary school is about far more than learning - it's socialising, cooperating, playing. My two are miserable at home. Obviously sometimes kids will pass the virus around and take it home but families should not be mixing with grandparents or vulnerable relatives when we are on the home straight with the vaccine. My kids haven't hugged my parents since July and my Grandad since last February. It is sad but their education is more important. Families with vulnerable adults who have not yet been vaccinated should be allowed to keep their kids at home for now but most should be back in.

@Frodont

I thought there was growing evidence that the new strain was more transmissible among young children?

I think it's more transmissible full stop, not particularly targeted at young children

There is no evidence of either. Its growth as a percentage of positive tests has dropped in England.

@HorseOfPhillipMoss

Didn't the ONS publish data this week that showed teachers, female teachers in particular are no more likely than anyone else to have died from Covid, some professions were much higher up the scale and they are still operational, so closures cannot be about risk to teachers regardless of MN. If they are about community transmission and the data shows on 3% of primary schools had outbreaks that's pretty low risk for community transmission.

Ah, so so long as I didn't die that's fine then. Never mind the hospitalisation, the mad dash to a and e, the 7 weeks off work, the 3+ months of continuing health complications, the increasing number of medication I now take, the probably,life long medical condition I now have since covid.

But hey, I didn't die so it doesn't matter, it doesn't count.

Plus those stats were averaged out over a time when schools were only partially open (as they are now, but when it was much stricter within the school) and social distancing etc was in place. Maybe we should focus on when schools were open to all with no mitigation bar an open window if you're lucky.

I suspect those bigging up the deployment of lateral flow tests for teachers, thus enabling primary schools to open, will get a nasty shock when said tests pick up so many asymptomatic cases that the schools are forced to close even for key worker and vulnerable children.

My children went back to school last Thursday after a phone call from one of their teachers on the wednesday inviting them back, my neighbours children have also been back this week so it seems the school are getting a few of them back in besides key workers children. It is a very small school, only 50 pupils at normal times and we are in an area where cases have been pretty low, we've not had a single case in school so far touch wood!

@LucyLockdown

Even if the dc are asymptomatic anyone actually catching it is included in the numbers!

People who’ve got it with no symptoms so who never get tested are included in the numbers? Don’t be silly.

Anyone believing the ‘the teachers seem to get it but not the pupils’ narrative at this stage is a special kind of stupid.

Your point was about the Teachers catching it off the kids without symptoms, so if the Teachers have symptoms they are tested and included in the numbers.

Other than that not sure what your point actually is?

It'sgettingweird

I do hope the government and DfE might actually listen to the ideas and suggestions, the sound advice put forward and reopen gradually and carefully, rather than the ridiculous everyone in, no precautions like they did in September.

There is no real reason why many of the suggestions for safer reopening couldn't be put into place if they really wanted to. It would n]mean extra finance in places, and we would need parents on board for some of them (such as rotas) but all are possible.

@Frodont

Not as stupid as people going on holiday at Easter, which a lot of dds friends are doing.

I hope your daughter and her friends have the money to pay for their isolation accommodation when they return, assuming they are going abroad?

@borntobequiet

I suspect those bigging up the deployment of lateral flow tests for teachers, thus enabling primary schools to open, will get a nasty shock when said tests pick up so many asymptomatic cases that the schools are forced to close even for key worker and vulnerable children.

The MHRA have banned this from going ahead last week.

I hope not. Dd primary school recently shut down as 8 staff members tested positive including the head teacher.