Primary schools back sooner than expected?

[deeplybaffled]

It’s hard to know what to believe, but PHE now seem to be suggesting that primary schools can safely return after half term - which seems to contradict all other recent reports and government comments
focussing around Easter!

@lavenderlou I'm a teacher of 20 years' experience currently working as an HLTA because teaching was impossible with three of my own kids and working every evening and weekends.
I love it although the pay is around a quarter of what I would earn as a teacher. A good TA is worth their weight in gold in the classroom.
To be a teacher you have to have a degree and at least one year of postgrad study. You can't just "be a teacher"!
And do you honestly expect a TA to "teach" and take on the role as a teacher on near to minimum wage? Personally I find that a little insulting, both to TA's and teachers.

@lavenderlou- create special spaces in any available space. You can even divide Halls etc. Having warm lunch at school should not be a priority. With creativity and some funding and good planning, it can all be done. Our TAs are doing a great job - teacher does the planning, TAs deliver, was done last June in many cases for the years back already.

@MusicMan65, that sounds a sensible plan, actually.

@MusicMan65 As a current secondary teacher I almost agree with your timeline except I think at secondary it will be after Easter. Only yesterday I heard the line about secondaries posing more risk to community transmission at least 3 times on different news outlets. I also think they may get years 11 and 13 back first as (1) the mini tests (?!) they want them to do (2) Williamson and Gove's kids are in those year groups.

@Nicknamegoeshere - that is why I said pay TAs a bit more. It is a pandemic, people need to adapt their roles quickly. What do you think is happening in the NHS? Do you think a heart surgeon consultant deployed to a Covid ward is allowed to feel insulted?! And his private practice pay has been cut. How do you think he or she feels?

I hope you are right, @MusicMan65. My son is now in Y6 so missed out on 5 months of school last year.

My only concern is that due to the size of his school, there won't be enough space anyway. This happened last year, all the spaces were taken by KW kids and no other children from the proposed year groups went back.

I guess it will depend on if social distancing has to continue?

This time even more kids have gone back. I know it's just the way it is, but it's hard. We're not having a great time right now.

@MusicMan65

Former teacher here, watching the news and reading the runes, here's my 2p worth.

Easter is late this year, early April, which means that if kids go back on 22 Feb they will get a clear 5 weeks at school before Easter. This means that govt will be very tempted to give in to the perfectly understandable pressure from families who are struggling to cope.

We have a libertarian government that by instinct doesn't like telling people what to do, hence all the 'advice' and appeals to common sense, which in a minority of cases fell on deaf &/or stupid ears.

Up against that temptation will be the weight of medical opinion, which will no doubt counsel in favour of hanging on until after Easter in order to get the R number down to almost 0, and they will point to the (in their opinion) premature lifting of measures last Autumn as a mistake that should not be repeated.

So, as usual, it comes down to medicine v politics. No one votes for doctors, so I think we know what will win in the end. However, the politicians know that having nailed their colours to the mast of 'following the science' they will have to at least appear to still be doing so.

SO - I think we're in for a repeat of the phased return to school that we saw last year after Lockdown #1. The biggest problem in schools will be social distancing and space, so we will see big tents erected in playgrounds and on playing fields, extra support staff drafted in, and probably some rotation of days on/days off between year groups, as well as the previous 'bubbling' reinstated.

With all that in place, I think they will try to get Reception/Y1/Y6 back on 22 Feb, and probably Y10/Y12 in Secondary schools. They won't go for Y11/Y13 first because we already know that their exam grades will be teacher assessed, whereas hopefully the current Y10/Y12 will be taking real exams in 2022 and therefore they will want to get them back on track with their courses ASAP.

Once those groups are back I suspect they will then drip feed the others back as logistics allow, with the idea that all students should get 2-3 weeks of school before the Easter break. By this point the vaccination programme should have covered all school staff.

Finally, because the Summer term won't be interrupted by exams this year, expect a massive catch up programme with extra help for those who have fallen behind. Plans for this will already be in place in individual schools. And if travel is still restricted this summer, then either govt &/or schools may well decide to keep going until the end of July.

Here's hoping that 'normality' will then return to schools in September.

As a teacher this won't happen. The schools won't be able to organise this in time. Or have the resources. We don't have massive tents lying around. You can't make 5yolds work outside in a tent in the middle of winter. They don't have enough staff. Supply was mental just before Christmas let alone if they need more staff in general plus sick cover. I predict primaries back as normal. All classes in feb. No secondaries back until after Easter.

Re key worker places- I've said on another thread that I think all kids should be on a rota including kw- I say this as a two parent key worker family. Yes it would mean key worker staff having to ask employers to be flexible but based on my own kids school which has about 40% using kw spaces the majority of parents aren't working out of the house full time (myself included ) and temporarily many could work around a part time school place. It would obvs have an impact on kw jobs but I don't think as much as people make out- put it this way most kw kids aren't using wrap around child care at my kids school (I am) so are doing kw work 9-3 which surely could for a couple of months be changed if kids are home half the week ??
I saw on another thread that primary parents only make up 8% of work force so some flexibility to kw parents by employers wouldn't be a massive impact.
Hopefully we are only looking at having to do this for a couple of months and it might mean having to use annual leave etc or come up with ways of working from home one day a week etc but it just doesn't seem right there is such a divide with primary education.

@Thirtyrock39

Re key worker places- I've said on another thread that I think all kids should be on a rota including kw- I say this as a two parent key worker family. Yes it would mean key worker staff having to ask employers to be flexible but based on my own kids school which has about 40% using kw spaces the majority of parents aren't working out of the house full time (myself included ) and temporarily many could work around a part time school place. It would obvs have an impact on kw jobs but I don't think as much as people make out- put it this way most kw kids aren't using wrap around child care at my kids school (I am) so are doing kw work 9-3 which surely could for a couple of months be changed if kids are home half the week ?? I saw on another thread that primary parents only make up 8% of work force so some flexibility to kw parents by employers wouldn't be a massive impact. Hopefully we are only looking at having to do this for a couple of months and it might mean having to use annual leave etc or come up with ways of working from home one day a week etc but it just doesn't seem right there is such a divide with primary education.

You can't rota key workers. Two teachers? Whose teaching your kid if they've got their own kids at home. Or any other combo of key workers. By all means demand two key workers parents (our school only requires one) but you can't Rota them.

In the few families of two full time teacher parents needing primary provision for their own kids both could temporarily work four days meaning their kids only need three days at school and then each could be wfh one day with less emphasis on live teaching.
Yes it would require flexibility but so many jobs and employers are having to be flexible at the moment. Also as I said it wouldn't impact as many as we think, most of the teachers I know aren't in school every day at the moment . My husband is a deputy head and I know the staffing at his school and many teachers are one week in one week wfh

Yes it would be really hard and mean wfh with kids at home maybe half the week but so many other parents are having to do this that I think it's only fair.

Love to see a load of teens in tents....🙄speaking as a secondary school teacher.

There won’t be exams next year. Some schools opt for starting GCSE in Year 9. Those students will have missed nearly a year of the course.

My dd is in Year 10, she’s missed loads through isolating. GCSE and A level will not be happening next year.

[quote Musicaldilemma]@Nicknamegoeshere - that is why I said pay TAs a bit more. It is a pandemic, people need to adapt their roles quickly. What do you think is happening in the NHS? Do you think a heart surgeon consultant deployed to a Covid ward is allowed to feel insulted?! And his private practice pay has been cut. How do you think he or she feels?[/quote]
@Musicaldilemma

Do you honestly think it's a reasonable comparison?

Asking a well paid, trained, qualified surgeon who by definition has worked in medicine for years to alter their job description.

Versus expecting a TA on minimum wage to do the job they've never done and arent qualified or equipped for? And what do you mean pay them more ? Same as a teacher? Are they doing marking too? Planning at home?

HappyTimeTunnelDinosaur

“Personally I think that would be a monumental mistake at this stage.“

Agree. Two months more and many millions more will be vaccinated and we’ll be well on the way to recovery. If they get it wrong again and open up too soon, we’ll be in this stop-start cycle for the rest of the year, which helps no-one.

If that happens @ArseInTheCoOpWindow those poor year 12s will have not had the opportunity to sit either of their exam series. My dd will be gutted. Although I get sitting them will put them at a disadvantage too.
No easy answer.

But they will open up too soon, they always do....

@GabriellaMontez yes I think it is a reasonable comparison. It is all hands on deck in the NHS and should be in the education sector.

Who says marking needs to continue to prepandemic standards. Teachers can plan lessons and TAs deliver them - has been happening in many good schools already.

Luckily in my kids’ schools all the teachers have a can do attitude. But my kids are privileged. That is the sad part, they are going to be fine anyway. It is the divide getting irretrievably bigger that is the huge problem here. Luckily France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden etc understand that and are doing all they can for their children’s generation. U.K. government need to get provide significant pandemic funding to schools immediately with clear guidelines.

Rates are FIVE times higher in secondary pupils, they transmit like adults the older they get.

The gov has just apologized for 100,00 deaths and we all know the mistakes made, we are just getting a handle, after a long year on our borders It would be utter madness to flood schools and communities with thousands of mingling students again.

It totally agree on the funding. And that some TAs are doing this already.

But plenty cant or dont want to. You wont compel these minimum waged employees to teach effectively. Then you're back to the original problem. The growing divide.

@GabriellaMontez Agreed. Don't people realise the minimum qualifications needed to be a teacher?

Min of three years at university to gain degree. Must be a minimum of a 2:1. Anything less and you can't enter teacher training.

A postgrad course of at least one year following that. To get on this you must have recent teaching experience or you won't be offered a place.

Once postgrad qualification attained you have to work a qualifying year for another year under supervision. You only get one chance to pass this. Frequent assessments both internal and external. If you fail this year you cannot retake.

I also had to then take further competency tests in maths, English and ICT and had to achieve a certain pass rate in all to progress. It's probably still the same.

Only then can you go on to become an NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher).

[quote Musicaldilemma]@GabriellaMontez yes I think it is a reasonable comparison. It is all hands on deck in the NHS and should be in the education sector.

Who says marking needs to continue to prepandemic standards. Teachers can plan lessons and TAs deliver them - has been happening in many good schools already.

Luckily in my kids’ schools all the teachers have a can do attitude. But my kids are privileged. That is the sad part, they are going to be fine anyway. It is the divide getting irretrievably bigger that is the huge problem here. Luckily France, Germany, Switzerland, Sweden etc understand that and are doing all they can for their children’s generation. U.K. government need to get provide significant pandemic funding to schools immediately with clear guidelines.[/quote]
Is it private?

The TAs are doing an excellent job in our school but it is to go in and support KW dc in very small bubbles. Whilst teacher is off site. I hugely prefer this and am so relieved school has clamped down. But TAs are doing this already, it’s not being a teacher though.

[quote Nicknamegoeshere]@GabriellaMontez Agreed. Don't people realise the minimum qualifications needed to be a teacher?

Min of three years at university to gain degree. Must be a minimum of a 2:1. Anything less and you can't enter teacher training.

A postgrad course of at least one year following that. To get on this you must have recent teaching experience or you won't be offered a place.

Once postgrad qualification attained you have to work a qualifying year for another year under supervision. You only get one chance to pass this. Frequent assessments both internal and external. If you fail this year you cannot retake.

I also had to then take further competency tests in maths, English and ICT and had to achieve a certain pass rate in all to progress. It's probably still the same.

Only then can you go on to become an NQT (Newly Qualified Teacher).[/quote]
Gove ended this when he allowed schools to employ unqualified teachers.

I wouldn’t want my child taught by an unqualified teacher.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

Rates are FIVE times higher in secondary pupils, they transmit like adults the older they get.

The gov has just apologized for 100,00 deaths and we all know the mistakes made, we are just getting a handle, after a long year on our borders It would be utter madness to flood schools and communities with thousands of mingling students again.

Agree.

Me too @Thatwentbadly.
I've seen some excellent, highly qualified TAs in action.

And I've seen some who only have basic literacy themselves.

I wonder which schools, in which areas have the former.

I wouldn't want my child being taught by an unqualified teacher

Theres millions of children being taught right now by unqualified teachers- their parents!