Primary schools back sooner than expected?

[deeplybaffled]

It’s hard to know what to believe, but PHE now seem to be suggesting that primary schools can safely return after half term - which seems to contradict all other recent reports and government comments
focussing around Easter!

Where I live (Somerset) it seems fairly common for primary schools to be at least 30-50% full with key worker kids.

The roads seem pretty busy between 8:30/9am and 3- 4pm.

@MarshaBradyo

Carpe this post which you agreed with so much you put it in caps. The ‘makes me laugh’. So I linked article outlining huge decline in child mh.

LucyLockdown
All this ‘our kids have suffered enough’ and ‘our kids have been sacrificed’ just makes me laugh. Get a grip. The overwhelming majority of kids are fine. They’re learning from home not being sent down the mines ffs.

THIS!

Fair enough but you must surely realise we are not literally laughing. The whole world is suffering-it's a worldwide pandemic! I just think some perspective is needed.

@borageforager

2fallsagain really?! Where in the country are you? I’m in the SW, been a very low area, but even so there’s been a handful of cases in some of our schools in town (not all - not my primary school or the immediately neighbouring school, but several of them)

I'm SW, Thornbury in South Glos. My son's small primary school (approx 185 children had no cases up to Christmas but in the last 2 weeks (so only Key Worker kids in) 3 classes have had cases and they've now closed the whole school for a few days for a deep clean. Families in my street have also been getting it. It's definitely doing the rounds in the SW right now.

CayrolBaaaskin
Research last week showed that they are 1.9 x more likely and support staff and special school staff are 3x more likely.

Carpe laughing or dismissing - same ugly side of stigma against mh decline. Worse when it’s dc we’re talking about.

Here’s the article for the perspective you are looking for if you missed it

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-depression-among-children-is-at-frightening-levels-doctors-warn-lz7cg7xf8

If you want to unalign yourself with pp or not it’s up to you

@doubleshotespresso

i think this would be a terrible idea. We have come this far, yes it's awful but the alternative is we already know far worse. We need to power on just a bit longer until schools are not just able to reopen, but to do so safely. Summer really demonstrated the error in lifting restrictions so soon, and it was a huge mistake reopening schools in September. We are now paying the price for this in addition to all the nonsense surrounding Christmas... Primary children have the weakest grasp of social distancing, we know transmissions are still high and little known about new variants other than the fact it effects the youngest hardest. This is a no brainer surely?

The new variant doesn't impact the youngest the hardest? I think we do know that young children can transmit it more easily, though.

I agree though, it does seem like a no brainer to wait until it is fully safe to reopen schools.

But there are some groups that seem to want schools open ASAP- makes you wonder what their agenda is.

I sincerely hope that this is true and they can go back. Children have suffered enough.

@MarshaBradyo

Carpe laughing or dismissing - same ugly side of stigma against mh decline. Worse when it’s dc we’re talking about.

Here’s the article for the perspective you are looking for if you missed it

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/coronavirus-depression-among-children-is-at-frightening-levels-doctors-warn-lz7cg7xf8

If you want to unalign yourself with pp or not it’s up to you

I've read that article and many others, thanks though 🙄

And no, I do not wish to "unalign" myself with a pp 😕; I stand by what I said.

Great for you Carpe

Not surprising. There’s always a few.

Grim though.

Will never get how people are like that.

What is ‘fully safe’ though. There’s risk in everything. Driving to school, crossing through roads .

We can all hope that safety measures are improved in schools but they won’t be fully safe. Just like supermarkets aren’t, taxis aren’t, buses aren’t.

The vaccine isn't licenced for children? Or can exceptions be made for ECV children.

I think it's something that paediatricians would consider in individual case. It depends on how high the risk of Covid is to the patient etc.

@LucyLockdown

How old is your child and how is homeschooling going?

Mind your own business about my children’s ages but it’s going fine thanks. Not perfect but manageable given that we are in a global pandemic. Yes I work full time and yes one of my children has SEN.

People seem to think that the only people who could want schools to stay closed are the stay at home mums with a big room full of school supplies that they’ve just been itching to use.

It’s not true. Some of us are just ok with cracking on with what needs to be done and not making a drama out of it.

I still think @LucyLockdown has the more positive approach.

Maybe take her sanguine approach on board rather than engaging in circular arguments on Mumsnet?

@itsgettingweird

Actually just found that data.

Last June/July there were 500-1500 cases daily.

I've not taken any figures before then as we didn't have adequate testing and that's when lockdown 1 started to end.

August was 1500-2000 daily.

September was 2500-4000 daily and by end up to 6000 daily.

October started at 6000 and ended with 21-25k daily. (This was when they'd talked about firebreak and a 2 week half term but it was decided not to).

November remained between 20-30k a day and ended on approx 15k daily.

December started approx 15k and ended on 50-60k. The cases really started taking off from end of second week.

These figures show how fine the balance is. I also think firebreaks would be such a good thing for 1-2 weeks with remote learning if ever needed rather than let it go out of control again like last October with a then month lockdown with schools open which didn't really have much effect. Cases at end of December weren't much lower than they are now.

But it's hard to know if the rise in September was due to schools, or was it due to 'Eat out to help out', pubs reopening (and let's be honest, a lot of pubs in London at least did not stick to rules about 'family groups'), universities reopening etc. Or a combination of all of the above.

But it's hard to know if the rise in September was due to schools, or was it due to 'Eat out to help out', pubs reopening (and let's be honest, a lot of pubs in London at least did not stick to rules about 'family groups'), universities reopening etc. Or a combination of all of the above.

Eat out to help out and pubs reopening started a lot earlier than schools, though. I do agree that lots of pubs got more lax with the rules over time.

I also agree that universities reopening had an impact.

But there are lots of break downs in cases by age that show a sustained rise in cases in the secondary school age group (11-17) from September onwards, increasing especially after October half term, when cases in other age groups were falling due to lockdown.

I don't think that many secondary school students are down the pub or regularly eating sit down meals! Obviously, they may be socialising elsewhere, but schools being open has an impact on this (i.e. parents allowing their children to go around someone else's house because they are in school all day).

At the end of last term, there was also a clear rise in the primary school age group, as well and increasing numbers of primary age children were off school.

I think there is clear evidence that schools being open with no mitigation measures do contribute to virus spread- they are not the only cause of it, but they are a problem.

@ineedaholidaynow That's it exactly.

We haven't encouraged her to think this way - and we're very far from panicking over Covid. But, she's a bright girl with an interest in science and she watches enough news and knows enough about how viruses work to be able to figure these things out.

She knows her bubble closing means someone in her bubble - someone she's been in close contact with - has tested positive for the disease and that she's been exposed. She's more than able to realise that she might well become ill from that. She also understands that even though she might not get seriously ill (or even ill at all) that doesn't mean she isn't passing it on, and that others might not be as lucky, and that the risk to her teachers, us, etc is greater.

Closure of her bubble also means she's completely stuck indoors for days on end, whereas currently she can go out for a walk, and comes into my office to homeschool.

There is no good solution to all of this, but the situation is just not as simple as 'the risk to teachers is no greater than to everyone else and all kids are really suffering, so schools must open!'

I've said on a couple of threads, I actually think there would be a place for looking to see how many kids are like mine and yours (because I've seen quite a few saying similar) - completely fine with homeschooling. If we could identify those, and put steps in place to ensure they keep a good level of work set and marked, then there is no reason for them to return and it immediately reduces numbers needing to be in school.

Oh god I so hope they are back after half term. However a couple of teachers I know think it will be September!

DS primary school has had a bubble closure this week never happened during the March lockdown. Personally I think cases in community are still too high.

@CKBJ

DS primary school has had a bubble closure this week never happened during the March lockdown. Personally I think cases in community are still too high.

Likewise.

Maybe take her sanguine approach on board rather than engaging in circular arguments on Mumsnet?’

Are you asking me.

Nope I won’t change my mind. My approach is fine. It’s repugnant views on dc mh I have issue with. Only from a few but bad enough.

I think it's something that paediatricians would consider in individual case. It depends on how high the risk of Covid is to the patient etc.

@Belladonna12 it would be in extremely rare circumstances that a paediatrician would even consider allowing a child to be administered an unlicensed vaccine. Not relevant for the vast majority of CV/CEV children.

Doh! Bold fail again.

The following is from the BBC reporting on Nick Gibb (Schools Minister) speaking today. Looks like we might hear some sort of update in the next few days - perhaps the criteria he mentions. I do agree with the calls for some sort of road map out of all this mess.

He says: "It is the government's strong desire to reopen all schools, colleges and universities as soon as possible.

"We will prioritise the reopening of schools as we begin the process of lifting lockdown restrictions."

He says there are "clear criteria" on the course of the pandemic that must be met before schools can reopen.

These include the number of people being admitted to hospital, death and vaccination rates and meeting the challenge of new variants.

He recognises the time head teachers, teachers, parents and pupils will need to prepare to return to the classroom, he says.

"We will give two weeks notice... we will be making announcements in the next few days," he says. The time-frame is a pledge already made by Education Secretary Gavin Williamson.

@MarshaBradyo

Maybe take her sanguine approach on board rather than engaging in circular arguments on Mumsnet?’

Are you asking me.

Nope I won’t change my mind. My approach is fine. It’s repugnant views on dc mh I have issue with. Only from a few but bad enough.

Just because someone holds a different view, that doesn't make it "repugnant".

Anyway, I won't be engaging with you any further; it's better we agree to differ, given that it isn't really a question of who is right/who is wrong. We are each entitled to our own perspective and viewpoint.

I wish you well.

Good I’m over talking about it too.