Germany saying AZ vaccine only 8% effective in over 65s *MNHQ noting that this story has been widely debunked*

[dbIdb]

What fresh hell is this.

Why, why, why was the Oxford trial/data reporting so sloppy?

How has it come to this??

@Truelymadlydeeplysomeonesmum oooo so do I. And also why Scotland’s vaccine programme is behind England’s.

[quote Blessex]@IcedPurple I am not sure the government will be giving any spare jabs to Ireland when there are still millions of vulnerable people in the U.K. still to jab.[/quote]
No, probably not, at least not at the moment.

However, yesterday Leo Varadkar said something about how negotiations with GB for a two island approach to travel restrictions were at an early stage, at the same time as Ireland introduced mandatory quarantine arrangements similar to those believed to be about to be imposed in Britain. So maybe, if the EU don't get vaccine supplies sorted out soon, something like this might be considered down the line?

unherd.com/2021/01/is-a-vaccine-trade-war-brewing/

Unherd analysis on potential vaccine war

According to one of the comments quoting the Duran podcast, Germany is separately negotiating with Russia to get supplies of their vaccine. One rule for EU countries, another for Germany, it seems...

I think somebody said this on another post. But a layered organisation with lots of stakeholders like the EU may be able to work for certain things eg coming with bigger clout for harder negotiation. But they expose themselves in moments of crisis when speed is of the essence. And good enough is ok. And lives are more valuable than absolute cost. What would the alternative have been? That each country would have negotiated alone? That would have exposed the issue at the heart of the EU. It is made up of nations of various different fortunes and size.

@Blessex

I think somebody said this on another post. But a layered organisation with lots of stakeholders like the EU may be able to work for certain things eg coming with bigger clout for harder negotiation. But they expose themselves in moments of crisis when speed is of the essence. And good enough is ok. And lives are more valuable than absolute cost. What would the alternative have been? That each country would have negotiated alone? That would have exposed the issue at the heart of the EU. It is made up of nations of various different fortunes and size.

I agree with that. I'm not anti EU in general, but it has shown itself to be useless in a crisis on more than one occasion. That's the natural of multi-national organisations with decentralised decision making, in contrast with highly centralised, authoritarian states like China for example.

Yes, it exposes the problems with the EU acting as a political bloc.

And a pp highlighted another major problem with the EU when she stated: 'The EU is accountable to its citizens.' How, exactly?

@MarshaBradyo

Ireland can’t get delivery if the ones they’ve ordered already as it’s not approved by EMA and that is part of contract. Even ordering separately they’d need this condition removed

But is Russian one approved by EMA?

No.

The Russian one isnt. I don't believe it has been approved for use in Hungary yet though.

However i believe I saw yesterday that Hungary has unilaterally approved use of AZ ahead of an announcement by the EMA (and i dont believe it has age restrictioned it either)

3 months delay I’d lose it. If we had to suffer that on top of high numbers as Europe have seen also

Interesting Red

@Wildswim agree. The EU is not accountable to its citizens.

This was one of the Brexit arguments for Leave. EU was run by tiers of bureaucrats who were well paid and couldn’t agree on much.

To me what's even worse than the inefficient bureaucracy (that taxpayers have to pay for) is that there is no way of holding them to account or effecting reform.

Goodness. BBC news is reporting that police are dealing with an incident at the AZ factory in Wrexham.

One of the reasons Conti has resigned is the administration of the EU Covid Relief Fund. This will be a massive problem for the EU, even though it isn't apparent yet.
I can't understand how Germany has got away with ordering lots of extra vaccines for its own use. Apparently other members have objected but the Commission has kept schtum on the issue.
As others have said, the whole thing exposes how unwieldy the EU is.

@Ohthatsgreat yes just read that , will put them behind a bit I guess , what is wrong with some people

It's a bomb scare from a suspect package, could be nothing: "Bomb squad at Wrexham factory making AstraZeneca vaccine after suspicious package received - Business Live" www.business-live.co.uk/economic-development/bomb-squad-wrexham-factory-making-19710640.amp.
(Or could be new talking point of the year...)

According to my Hungarian colleague Hungary are using Sputnik anyway regardless of the EU and they have also said the U.K. has approved AZ vaccine so that is good enough for them. They are calling one dose of the Sputnik vaccine Sputnik light and two doses Sputnik. She’s not sure if people are going to be given the choice of Sputnik light or Sputnik.

@Blessex
@IcedPurpleI am not sure the government will be giving any spare jabs to Ireland when there are still millions of vulnerable people in the U.K. still to jab.

We have a land border with Ireland, a Common Travel area and have discussed sharing ICU and other resources if required. Of course the UK will provide vaccines to Ireland, even if we supply them to nobody else in the world. It would probably be done one step behind the UK e.g. just healthcare staff, care homes and over 80s after mid-Feb when the initial vaccines have been supplied to start groups 5-8.

That said, I see why they weren't allowed to have vaccines in advance of approval, if that's enabled then it has to be set up got all 27, and that makes a mockery of EMA approval if it's made so clear that everyone is going ahead regardless of what is actually said.

I would be very supportive of supplying RoI. Lots of my family live there but it makes sense for strategic and neighbour reasons too. Not before bulk of our priority groups are done.

The thing about EMA approval is that they make a big deal about doing it thoroughly, U.K. are rushing it , guinea pigs etc but they have the same emergency powers to approve as we do. If this isn’t the perfect opportunity to use those emergency powers what exactly would be

I would be very supportive of supplying RoI.
Me too, and I've no family from there.

@mrex Of course the UK will provide vaccines to Ireland, even if we supply them to nobody else in the world. It would probably be done one step behind the UK e.g. just healthcare staff, care homes and over 80s after mid-Feb when the initial vaccines have been supplied to start groups 5-8.

Is that happening?? So we will vaccinate Ireland before vaccinating our over 60s and our teachers. Really???

I agree I don't think the British government could prioritise RoI over UK citizens. If supply weren't an issue I think it would be a good gesture to show we value our relationship with the Irish BUT as we've been told all along, supply is the limiting factor in the vaccination program.

People on here are constantly arguing about vaccine priority lists, can you imagine the outcry if the government diverted some shots to RoI?

Yes I accept vaccines would have to be plentiful and the main priority groups done here.

RoI has roughly 5m people and has had some Pfizer vaccines. Helping remaining over 80s plus healthcare staff would "cost" less than 1 day delay on the UK vaccination programme, with the benefit of continuing bilateral support in the event that NI or RoI need to share healthcare. The low numbers make a difference.
And I've no idea if it would happen or not, hopefully the EC will just say sorry and move on so that it isn't necessary. I see no reason for the UK wouldn't step up for Ireland if needed though.