UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?

[LacyEdge]

Prof Alice Roberts started an interesting Twitter thread discussing this, linking to Nafeez Ahmed’s article about U4T in Byline Times. Replies suggest UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group.

Well I never.

twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1352993581414424576

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

Tempt just how long do you think dc would be asked for wear masks for?. Short term measures to get us out of this...

I am extremely worried that they will become a cultural norm, expected and mandated regularly. Hopefully I'm wrong, though.

@EnemyOfEducationNo1

Sweden - they pay more per day if self isolation for the self employed, than the UK do per week. Also get furlough equivalent if employed and need to self isolate, or your child does. I expect that helped hugely.

Now that is a mitigation measure I can get behind.

But it might be a factor. A society where a lot of people cover their face will not be untouched by the psychological effects of that

Temptashun Dh lost a friend to suicide. If you had any idea of his situation, you wouldn’t throw that idea around so blithely. You have no idea of the poverty and lack of mental health awareness that brought him to that situation. Blaming it on masks is just offensive. As you said, you don’t know anything about the history or culture of Japan, so please realise that when you throw around “maybes” like that, it is offensive and ignorant (in the non-offensive meaning if that makes sense.)

(And also - let’s be accurate. “A society where people cover their faces for limited amounts of time in certain situations”)

It’s like saying “It rains a lot in england, and lots of people die of heart attacks. Therefore rain causes heart attacks!”

Anyway. Dh (Japanese) has an opinion on your stereotype upthread. He says (and he speaks as just one, not all Japanese people) that “Japanese people have no problem feeling or expressing emotions, they just have the manners not to show them at inappropriate times.”

Oof.

Bearing that philosophy in mind, I shall bow out before my irritableness gets the better of me.

@TaxTheRatFarms

But it might be a factor. A society where a lot of people cover their face will not be untouched by the psychological effects of that

Temptashun Dh lost a friend to suicide. If you had any idea of his situation, you wouldn’t throw that idea around so blithely. You have no idea of the poverty and lack of mental health awareness that brought him to that situation. Blaming it on masks is just offensive. As you said, you don’t know anything about the history or culture of Japan, so please realise that when you throw around “maybes” like that, it is offensive and ignorant (in the non-offensive meaning if that makes sense.)

(And also - let’s be accurate. “A society where people cover their faces for limited amounts of time in certain situations”)

It’s like saying “It rains a lot in england, and lots of people die of heart attacks. Therefore rain causes heart attacks!”

Anyway. Dh (Japanese) has an opinion on your stereotype upthread. He says (and he speaks as just one, not all Japanese people) that “Japanese people have no problem feeling or expressing emotions, they just have the manners not to show them at inappropriate times.”

Oof.

Bearing that philosophy in mind, I shall bow out before my irritableness gets the better of me.

I have not said that people like your husband's friend commit suicide because people in Japan wear masks, and it's disingenuous for you to imply that I did. I am fully aware that the reasons people do so are manifest and complex, and also you shouldn't assume that my life has been untouched by it.

I do know that feeling unconnected to society doesn't help with good mental health, though.

I have not said that people like your husband's friend commit suicide because people in Japan wear masks

You implied it twice. If you don’t believe it to be true, stop saying it.

I do know that feeling unconnected to society doesn't help with good mental health, though.

But again you’re speaking from your very narrow bias. It might not have crossed your mind as you had a different upbringing, but if you have grown up with something feeling “normal”, it doesn’t make you feel disconnected from society. Children who grow up seeing masks don’t feel disconnected from society as it’s normal for them. My husband didn’t, my children didn’t. But you, who has never experienced that lifestyle, are determined it’s damaging. It’s new for you, and I understand it’s scary for you and you might find it “disconnecting”, but your experience is not the only one that exists.

And I wonder how you don’t think British summer is more damaging for children than Japanese winter. After all, a lot of mums will take their kids out to the park, out shopping, off to clubs, school run, and mum will wear sunglasses to protect her eyes. Sometimes the kids will wear sunglasses too. How do they cope spending a few hours a day not being able to see their mum’s eyes? Just a blank, black surface. Like an insect! Terrifying. Aren’t eyes expressive and vital for communication and reassurance? Even varifocals might be accidentally scarring our children’s development!

We all know what impact things like masks and not being able to leave the house for a limited number of reasons, poverty caused by the CV19 measures, inequality, women losing careers as schools are shut. These are bigger risks and damages than the benefits of lockdown in my view but I accept almost every state internationally disagrees with me, the UK is no outlier and nor is it worse than other places or much better (other than more people die as we are older and larger and sicker and our vaccination programme seems to be doing better).

@Xenia do you work in a public facing role? Outside the home?

Xenia obviously has no problems with a collapsed NHS, exhausted and traumatised nurses HCA, doctors. She also has no problems with her children getting a stream of supply teachers due to staff illness.
Mass graves anyone? Absolutely fine and better than a short term curtailment on your activities.

@Temptashun: How would all schoolchildren going back to school in May have reduced the burden on the nhs this winter?

Xenia in other threads has said she'd rather opt out of the NHS because she's healthy and doesn't need it. I'm pretty sure she suggested people like her should get a rebate.
As she's mentioned so many times before in other threads she's a lawyer apparently, as are her children (I think) who were all (I think) educated privately....

I have been wondering whether Johnson is slightly rattled by Trump and his endless lies finally coming unstuck in the US this month and whether this may curb his own endless lying to some extent (I think he is incapable to do it completely as appears to be second nature and it has served him well).

He didn’t sound last night as if they were about to announce school reopening imminently though I could be wrong . Wonder if he realises that the lies they told last autumn on the back of the pressure Us 4 them or whatever their names are exerted won’t wash well and feels the part that school openings in the autumn played to get us to the place we are at now. I guess if he does we will see a slightly different tone from him over the coming days.

Lies

@HalfPastThree, @Greyce

That is quite simply untrue (and I am no Union leftie).
If you want to "hate someone deeply" for the terrible position we are now in regarding schools, I would suggest you look at the likes of Boris, Gove, Williamson and, of course, UsForThem.

@Greyce pure unadulterated bollocks.

Lies lies lies. The NEU have campaigned since at least last June for safer reopening.

Look where we are. They were ignored.

I'm going to have to apologies I quoted but missed the and as a parent I hate them deeply. I do not agree with this last bit at all. But There is a very vocal and often aggressive group of MN posters who have loved to insult and belittle parents for wanting an education for the dc at school. I totally disagree with any divisive style of posting (hence my apology about the hate bit). Unions are needed to protect workers' rights, I'm in one but there has been a concerted effort to shut down parents reasonable concerns about the dc's education in recent moths. Not in a reasoned way bit with a bullying kind of rhetoric.

• apologise

but there has been a concerted effort to shut down parents reasonable concerns about the dc's education in recent moths

Not by teaching unions though. Look at the Schools are Safe mantra for that.

Teaching unions - if you look at the press releases - have consistently press d for safety measures in school that would enable the continuation t children's education in schools. It is the refusal to countenance any mitigations in school that leads to schools closing and education being disrupted.
Us4Them need to take a good look at themselves.

From Sky News

Boris Johnson to make Commons statement on schools reopening around 1.30pm - before leading Downing Street briefing later
PM confirms he will outline a 'roadmap' out of lockdown in coming weeks - if there are no new variants and the vaccine rollout continues apace

I hope the teaching unions realise that they have completely alienated most parents during this pandemic! People at our schools who are not teachers absolutely hate teaching unions now (they don’t hate the teachers themselves of course). I don’t know how the teaching unions can communicate better with parents, maybe they don’t care?! As for this opaque group you mention - had a brief look on the website and without becoming a member there is not much info on there?! But seems to me this group must be the antidote of the unions. If the unions were not so extreme then there would not be this group. Wish the government would just fund schools properly then our kids would not be caught in this political crossfire, it is ridiculous.

had a brief look on the website and without becoming a member there is not much info on there?!

They’re all over Facebook and Twitter, just ask your lawyer friend.

Or you could read comments in the papers like this one about how schools should take the risk of indoor singing so that their child feels special.

My goodness who doesn't want yo give the or dc the best child hood they can, my dd had a bday in lock down isolation last year.

I can't get my head around these people, trying to insist on total normality, at this time when every action could cause someone down the chain to become seriously ill or die??

Anyway 8th March... They will '' start '' to roll open school to outside.

@Musicaldilemma

I hope the teaching unions realise that they have completely alienated most parents during this pandemic! People at our schools who are not teachers absolutely hate teaching unions now (they don’t hate the teachers themselves of course). I don’t know how the teaching unions can communicate better with parents, maybe they don’t care?! As for this opaque group you mention - had a brief look on the website and without becoming a member there is not much info on there?! But seems to me this group must be the antidote of the unions. If the unions were not so extreme then there would not be this group. Wish the government would just fund schools properly then our kids would not be caught in this political crossfire, it is ridiculous.

The unions have been victim of a smear campaign. Please actually read their press releases and statements and you may find your views are more in line with them than you thought.

Yeah lots of people seem to have fallen for the Daily Mail headlines about how Boris was battling teaching unions about opening schools.

It was all a fake narrative to make him look like a strong leader and to give him a victory. The unions had no say in when schools re-opened and teachers in those unions spent the summer saying ‘wtf is the Mail on about?!’