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UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?

494 replies

LacyEdge · 25/01/2021 18:42

Prof Alice Roberts started an interesting Twitter thread discussing this, linking to Nafeez Ahmed’s article about U4T in Byline Times. Replies suggest UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group.

Well I never.

twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1352993581414424576

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
TaxTheRatFarms · 26/01/2021 22:14

What they said is 'The risks of affecting damage to general speech and language development is far greater than any risks of children transmitting'.

Do you honestly believe that Japanese children are somehow socially and linguistically stunted due to mask wearing?

Can that be real? Honestly?

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 22:14

@TaxTheRatFarms

Did you.. even read that article? Grin

And did you notice that the “teacher” making that comment calls themselves “right wing conspirator” and spouts anti-mask conspiracy theories? And isn’t Japanese?

I taught in Japan for 10 years. None of my students ever shook and cried when they took their masks off. The article you’ve linked to actually comments on stress in society and nothing to do with masks in a pandemic.

Yes, I read the article. It's all anecdata, but then so is yours. As I said, I'm still looking for the interview with the psychologist.

The article you’ve linked to actually comments on stress in society and nothing to do with masks in a pandemic.
Yes, but it's talks about the harms of long term mask usage.I'm pulling a lot form the other source which I can't find at the mo, but he talked about how if children start to rely on them to 'hide' behind then they become habituated to them and start to have problems when asked to remove them,, too.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 22:18

@TaxTheRatFarms

What they said is 'The risks of affecting damage to general speech and language development is far greater than any risks of children transmitting'.

Do you honestly believe that Japanese children are somehow socially and linguistically stunted due to mask wearing?

Can that be real? Honestly?

Do I believe the scientists at SAGE? Not always, but in this case, and based on all the other evidence I've read, yes.

Japanese children are somehow socially and linguistically stunted due to mask wearing

I'd need to know how many teachers and students wear masks and how often. I'd not be surprised if there hasn't been some negative effect. I don't know if there have been any studies on it from Japan.

I guess there will be lots incoming, as people willingly enrol their kids into this global experiment..

TaxTheRatFarms · 26/01/2021 22:18

Anyway. I digress. I shouldn’t let it affect me but it does. That we’re living on a country with 100,000 deaths.

My nephew in Japan, who wears a mask to school, lives in a country with 5000 covid deaths. 5000.

I’d best not tell you that he wears a mask at school and yet is somehow bilingual. That might hurt Grin

TaxTheRatFarms · 26/01/2021 22:23

I'd need to know how many teachers and students wear masks and how often. I'd not be surprised if there hasn't been some negative effect. I don't know if there have been any studies on it from Japan.

Oh my holy god.

People in Japan have been wearing mask since (before!) my dh was a child. He’s 40.

If they were causing myriad problems, trust me - someone would have noticed by now.

Anecdata/humblebrag - I wore a mask every day for 8 months teaching my classes as I had no immunity to rubella and was pregnant. Some kids wore masks every day, some only when they had a cold/didn’t have time to do their makeup, some never. They passed their English exam with flying colours.

mrshoho · 26/01/2021 22:33

I am interested in your opinion on when you think primary and secondary schools should reopen fully @temptashun. I've gathered from your many threads that you do not see any point in masks.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 22:43

@noblegiraffe

On the day where deaths pass 100,000 it must take some arrogance to peddle the idea that we had it right when we sent kids back to school with no mitigation measures leading to soaring infection rates.

Maybe stop cherry picking studies and look at what happened when schools went back without masks and social distancing. You know, a real life full scale trial.

Do you think what happened was a good outcome?

Maybe stop cherry picking studies and look at what happened when schools went back without masks and social distancing. You know, a real life full scale trial.

This does not constitute a trial, since it could have been the same going back with masks.

I believe that in Germany most states have mandates masks in schools though. Pretty sure Spain have too.

Shall we have a look at how they compare?

Here it is.

It doesn't really look like there's a huge amount of difference, does it?

UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?
Temptashun · 26/01/2021 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 22:46

That’s a logarithmic scale and we’re the highest?

TaxTheRatFarms · 26/01/2021 22:55

Temptashun

First, can we not stereotype? It’s a bit... narrow minded.

And even if that were true, do you honestly believe that any “difficulty showing emotion” is really due to 50 odd years of mask wearing and not, oh let’s say hundreds of years of culture? You can’t be that desperate to push your agenda, surely?

That’s by far the worst take of yours that I’ve seen on this thread and so so desperate. Laughably so.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 22:56

On the day where deaths pass 100,000 it must take some arrogance to peddle the idea that we had it right when we sent kids back to school with no mitigation measures leading to soaring infection rates.
Do you think what happened was a good outcome?

I think that the schools should have gone back May-July.
As I've repeatedly said, I don't think it was a mistake to not use mitigation measures such as masks and social distancing because they would have done pretty much chuff all. I think that parents should be able to take their children out of school without losing their pace if cases got too high for their comfort level, rather than closing the schools to everyone.
Opening the schools for the first time in September with no allowances for home learning whilst retaining the place put an enormous burden of infection right at the start of the traditional flu season, which is why things got so bad.

EnemyOfEducationNo1 · 26/01/2021 22:57

More informative graphs

UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?
UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?
EnemyOfEducationNo1 · 26/01/2021 22:59

Or cumulative deaths

UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?
Temptashun · 26/01/2021 23:00

@TaxTheRatFarms

Temptashun

First, can we not stereotype? It’s a bit... narrow minded.

And even if that were true, do you honestly believe that any “difficulty showing emotion” is really due to 50 odd years of mask wearing and not, oh let’s say hundreds of years of culture? You can’t be that desperate to push your agenda, surely?

That’s by far the worst take of yours that I’ve seen on this thread and so so desperate. Laughably so.

I was open about my lack of knowledge and that I was using stereotypes. That's why I was phrasing it as a question, to you, who knows more.

You can't really disparage me for those things. Well, you can, but it reflects badly on you, not me.

I don't know if the problems are linked. Have suicides and reticence got worse over the last 50 years? Psychological effects are many and varied. That's precisely why I don't think we should just dismiss things like the effects of mask wearing around children.

Humptydumpty85 · 26/01/2021 23:05

@thecatfromjapan they wind up and manipulate parents - either desperate, concerned or not so bright. Basically taking advantage of them in my opinion.

Humptydumpty85 · 26/01/2021 23:07

Didn't mean that to sound condescending by the way, but realise it probably did sorry!

Justthebeerlighttoguide · 26/01/2021 23:07

Tempt just how long do you think dc would be asked for wear masks for?.
Short term measures to get us out of this...

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 23:08

@Parker231

Funny how children in other countries can successfully wear a mask in school and playtime, have low Covid deaths, a near normal life and a good education but British children couldn’t wear a mask.
Funny how in Sweden they don't make their children wear masks, and have done better than the UK
noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 23:10

don't think it was a mistake to not use mitigation measures such as masks and social distancing because they would have done pretty much chuff all

Schools did go back in June. Primary schools with social distancing and half classes. Did you not know that?

CallmeAngelina · 26/01/2021 23:14

Was going to say.. I must have forgotten that full teaching timetable I had in my primary school from May half term.

TaxTheRatFarms · 26/01/2021 23:14

Temptashun

It doesn’t reflect badly on me at all. You admitted your ignorance, I pointed out the rather obvious fallacy in your argument.

And if reticence and suicide had got worse over the last 50 years, you’ll assume it’s masks and we shouldn’t wear them around kids? Right. It could equally be increasing pressure on exam results due to fewer jobs - best cancel exams worldwide then, in case kids get stressed.

Could be due to having to work longer hours (16 hour days were the norm for my husband at one point!) just to be able to afford rent. Best to raise wages worldwide then, just in case.

You’d blame masks, rather than a lack of mental health awareness and care? You’re right. You know nothing about Japan whatsoever and your attempt to pin all its “woes” on masks is bizarre.

EnemyOfEducationNo1 · 26/01/2021 23:20

Sweden - they pay more per day if self isolation for the self employed, than the UK do per week. Also get furlough equivalent if employed and need to self isolate, or your child does.
I expect that helped hugely.

UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?
Temptashun · 26/01/2021 23:29

@noblegiraffe

don't think it was a mistake to not use mitigation measures such as masks and social distancing because they would have done pretty much chuff all

Schools did go back in June. Primary schools with social distancing and half classes. Did you not know that?

Sorry, yes. Was thinking only about mine, who didn't go back until Sept. But, I still think that they should all have gone back in May, to reduce the burden on winter transmissions.
noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 23:30

I just googled to see how Sweden is getting on (not so well) and this article came up www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/03/swedish-model-failed-covid-19

"Our future historians will doubtless wonder, too, just how, in the imagination of many on the British right, Sweden went from gang violence-riddled dystopia to exemplar in a few months. The answer is quite simple: the same small group of people who talked so fervently about Sweden’s libertarian refusal to lock down – newspaper columnists, backbench MPs, anonymously funded thinktanks – have massively outsized access to British public debate.

All of this is very familiar. In my latest book, I chart how a cadre of backbench Tory MPs, anonymously funded thinktanks and ubiquitous media commentators turned “no-deal Brexit” from an outlandish notion to “nothing to fear”. During the pandemic, the same strategies were employed – often by the same people .....

....Sunak is part of the growing libertarian trend among Conservative MPs, many of whom have been vociferous in their opposition to renewed lockdown measures. Lockdown sceptics have had financial support, too: the much-discussed Great Barrington declaration, which advocated herd immunity, was coordinated by a US thinktank that has received funding from the billionaire Koch brothers, who pumped huge sums into the Republican party and its fringes.

All of this has shaped Britain’s haphazard pandemic response. Faced with pressure from lockdown sceptics in the media and inside his own party, Johnson dithered, time and again."

The bit in bold is what cat has been talking about.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 23:31

@TaxTheRatFarms

Temptashun

It doesn’t reflect badly on me at all. You admitted your ignorance, I pointed out the rather obvious fallacy in your argument.

And if reticence and suicide had got worse over the last 50 years, you’ll assume it’s masks and we shouldn’t wear them around kids? Right. It could equally be increasing pressure on exam results due to fewer jobs - best cancel exams worldwide then, in case kids get stressed.

Could be due to having to work longer hours (16 hour days were the norm for my husband at one point!) just to be able to afford rent. Best to raise wages worldwide then, just in case.

You’d blame masks, rather than a lack of mental health awareness and care? You’re right. You know nothing about Japan whatsoever and your attempt to pin all its “woes” on masks is bizarre.

No, I don't assume it's all masks - just as I don't assume that all children will experience problems here. But it might be a factor. A society where a lot of people cover their face will not be untouched by the psychological effects of that..