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UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?

494 replies

LacyEdge · 25/01/2021 18:42

Prof Alice Roberts started an interesting Twitter thread discussing this, linking to Nafeez Ahmed’s article about U4T in Byline Times. Replies suggest UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group.

Well I never.

twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1352993581414424576

OP posts:
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13
Temptashun · 26/01/2021 14:55

I kind of drifted off at the breastfeeding bullshit, tbh.

Do you think it's right to let babies go hungry for days or weeks rather than give them formula?

And the false scientific claims

Which ones are false?

Justthebeerlighttoguide · 26/01/2021 14:58

Temptashun

most S and L is well developed by 12, dc who need support at that age will get it through other channels than school because quite clearly there are deeper issues.

s and L is not developed over night either nor hampered by a few hours here and there at school.

cornercupboard · 26/01/2021 14:59

So clearly you are big unionists or perhaps they would like to go back to school in a safe way, safe for the adults who work there and for the adults who are members of the families connected to the children, and in fact, safe to the wider community?

Justthebeerlighttoguide · 26/01/2021 15:00

Anyway - having seen the website for myself its quite clear the Gov are putting themselves in even more of a dangerous situation by listening to a word they say.

We all want schools back in person when its safe to do to , these people are way out on a limb and not based on a sound knowledge footing.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 15:01

most S and L is well developed by 12

And we all know that teenagers have fully developed socialisation and communication skills nods.

noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 15:02

have been quiet for a few weeks

I've been what now? Maybe you didn't see my thread about the govt refusing to provide free school meals over feb half term because you don't give a shit about kids going hungry. Or maybe you missed my thread about the abrupt cancellation of exams because you don't care about their education?

Or maybe you're just talking shit.

noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 15:04

@Temptashun

I kind of drifted off at the breastfeeding bullshit, tbh.

Do you think it's right to let babies go hungry for days or weeks rather than give them formula?

And the false scientific claims

Which ones are false?

Do you think it's right to let babies go hungry for days or weeks rather than give them formula?

See? Mad.

Which ones are false?

The ones which were refuted upthread.

LacyEdge · 26/01/2021 15:14

It’s very odd, @Temptashun, that you’ve spent so much time and effort shouting your views on this thread, while all your points have been systematically refuted by more or less everyone else. Not tribally, but because we disagree.

Why the dedication? Why are you so interested in defending U4T if you have no connection?

Also had to laugh (mirthlessly) at your idea that @noblegiraffe’s campaign for schools to be safer before they reopen is the same as wanting their doors to be locked eternally. I suppose the guy who put my broken wrist in a cast was hellbent on encasing everyone’s limbs in plaster forever, because something something new world order? Grin

OP posts:
Temptashun · 26/01/2021 15:16

You've just accused me of lying. I think my views on you have just been enforced

If you're not lying then I apologise.
But, if you're only just hearing about Us for Them now, after your kids have lost months and months of schooling, that's a bit of an indictment on you, don't you think?

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 15:18

The ones which were refuted upthread

Give me the examples.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 15:19

Do you think it's right to let babies go hungry for days or weeks rather than give them formula?

See? Mad.

Why is this mad? Can you answer the question?

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 15:23

Why are you so interested in defending U4T if you have no connection?

I'm not interesting in defending them. I'm interested in defending their points.

knittingaddict · 26/01/2021 15:23

@Temptashun

You've just accused me of lying. I think my views on you have just been enforced

If you're not lying then I apologise.
But, if you're only just hearing about Us for Them now, after your kids have lost months and months of schooling, that's a bit of an indictment on you, don't you think?

My kids are in their 30's.
knittingaddict · 26/01/2021 15:26

And if they had been young and lost months of schooling then that would NOT have been an indictment on me. No skin off my nose, but how dare you imply that about other parents on here.

borntobequiet · 26/01/2021 15:30

Gosh, that website! The homepage is pretty much nothing but lies and directly counteracts WHO advice. Absolutely shameful and dangerous.

noble, if you’ve been quiet these last few weeks, I’m sorry to have to tell you that someone has been pretending to be you and banging on about making schools safe.

noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 15:39

Give me the examples.

Do your own work you lazy arse. Literally on this thread.

Why is this mad?

Because it’s bollocks-all to do with the discussion and only an idiot would consider it relevant or somehow a killer question.

But, if you're only just hearing about Us for Them now, after your kids have lost months and months of schooling, that's a bit of an indictment on you

This is amazing. Why would you expect parents to have heard of a batshit organisation campaigning to lower safety standards in schools? Most would rightly roll their eyes and shove them in the same category as those burning 5G masts.

noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 15:43

I’m sorry to have to tell you that someone has been pretending to be you and banging on about making schools safe.

They sound like they’re running a stealth campaign to close schools. Probably a paid unionist.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 16:00

Do your own work you lazy arse. Literally on this thread.

I can't see anywhere that my posts have been refuted. Someone thought they had (with an Allyson Pollock article, no less. She says that asymptomatic testing is of marginal benefit - if someone's takeaway from her BMJ article was that she thinks asymptomatic spread is a real danger, they need to learn to read better...).

Because it’s bollocks-all to do with the discussion and only an idiot would consider it relevant or somehow a killer question.

It has everything to do with the discussion.
My point is that parents can and, do harm their kids, because they believe something is best, without questioning it. Breast is best - ok. But are the benefits worth the immense distress of a baby not getting enough breast milk? You have to know by how much it's better to be able to make that call.
Likewise with masks and distancing. How well do masks work compared to the negatives? You have to know both to be able to make the call.

If you're someone who prefers the baby going hungry to giving formula early, tell me why. Perhaps I'm wrong and am missing something.
If you think that masks are worth the speech and language and other problems, tell me why, with evidence. Perhaps, again, I'm wrong!

Does the fact that this thread is truing to discredit the people on Us For Them, rather than what they are saying, not suggest that this is about tribes and conformity, not evidence?

This is amazing. Why would you expect parents to have heard of a batshit organisation campaigning to lower safety standards in schools? Most would rightly roll their eyes and shove them in the same category as those burning 5G masts.

I actually don't expect parents to do much reading. That's the problem.

LacyEdge · 26/01/2021 16:11

I can't see anywhere that my posts have been refuted.

Apart from the fact that all your views are refuted by the mainstream epidemiological consensus, you mean?

(Yes, mainstream majority, not Gupta and Heneghan. Although even they might raise an eyebrow at the breastfeeding detour.)

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 16:13

I can't see anywhere that my posts have been refuted

You never answered how your claims about rare asymptomatic transmission explained that secondary kids were the most infected subset of the population. Can’t imagine why not.

My point is that parents can and, do harm their kids, because they believe something is best

A mind-numbingly facile point that you’re trying and failing to apply to a complex problem.

Does the fact that this thread is truing to discredit the people on Us For Them, rather than what they are saying, not suggest that this is about tribes and conformity, not evidence?

Pretty sure that what they’re saying has been thoroughly discredited too.

I actually don't expect parents to do much reading.

Pompous.

herecomesthsun · 26/01/2021 16:37

[quote Musicaldilemma]**@herecomesthesun* - I am not justifying anything. All I can observe is that you and @noblegiraffe* have been quiet for a few weeks until there is political pressure to reopen schools. So clearly you are big unionists.[/quote]
I' m not even a teacher. Though I do belong to the BMA. Busy homeschooling right now.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 17:12

You never answered how your claims about rare asymptomatic transmission explained that secondary kids were the most infected subset of the population.

The claims about rare asymptotic aren't mine. They're Allyson Pollock's and the team behind the Wuhan study.

As to why the teen's rates were so high - probably because they'd been the group least exposed before they went back to school, and then they did a boat load of mixing all at once, perhaps...?
It's not rocket science.

If one symptomatic was in a crowded class then there's a high chance that they'd infect a number of their classmates. If those classmates then get tested even though they're asymptomatic then they'll add to the rates, even though they won't spread it to others, including those at home.

This is one of the fundamentals as to why schools are safe for most. The R rate can actually be slowed because the virus comes up against a lot of people who get it but don't spread it.

A mind-numbingly facile point that you’re trying and failing to apply to a complex problem.

The parallels are clear. The problem is the children's distress. The cause is social pressure and a lack of cost to benefit analysis.
Each of my acquaintances said that they regretted their actions afterwards, and that it wasn't worth the distress to both them and their babies. I just want to stop people calling for masks and then regretting it later when their kid has speech problems. It's just not worth the tiny weeny effect that masks might have.

Pompous.

Absolutely.
It's true though, isn't it? Most people just don't bother.

Temptashun · 26/01/2021 17:14

Apart from the fact that all your views are refuted by the mainstream epidemiological consensus, you mean?

(Yes, mainstream majority, not Gupta and Heneghan. Although even they might raise an eyebrow at the breastfeeding detour.)

Lol

It's all about being part of the mainstream again, isn't it?
Conform, conform, conform....

herecomesthsun · 26/01/2021 17:16

@Temptashun

Apart from the fact that all your views are refuted by the mainstream epidemiological consensus, you mean?

(Yes, mainstream majority, not Gupta and Heneghan. Although even they might raise an eyebrow at the breastfeeding detour.)

Lol

It's all about being part of the mainstream again, isn't it?
Conform, conform, conform....

boring old mainstream WHO and SAGE
noblegiraffe · 26/01/2021 17:22

If one symptomatic was in a crowded class then there's a high chance that they'd infect a number of their classmates. If those classmates then get tested even though they're asymptomatic then they'll add to the rates, even though they won't spread it to others, including those at home.

You don't understand the graph that was presented. You also seem to be ignoring the evidence from SAGE that children are then spreading those infections to their household.

However, you do seem quite certain that infections are spreading easily through crowded classrooms. I agree. What measures should be taken to ensure that doesn't happen again when schools reopen?

I just want to stop people calling for masks and then regretting it later when their kid has speech problems

I teach 18 year olds. What speech problems do you think will be caused by wearing masks in the classroom for the 14 hours a week they are in lessons?

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