UsForThem - “opaque lobbyists” with links to the far right?

[LacyEdge]

Prof Alice Roberts started an interesting Twitter thread discussing this, linking to Nafeez Ahmed’s article about U4T in Byline Times. Replies suggest UsForThem aren’t a concerned parents’ group at all and are linked with a far right funded group.

Well I never.

twitter.com/theAliceRoberts/status/1352993581414424576

I was reading this thread and wondering about people's views and where I stood. Somewhere in the middle usually. Then I read your post and it helped me make up my mind. Definitely astroturfing and I'll give that group and it's views a hard pass.

Hahaha.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Making decisions on emotion and supporting a particular tribe.
'I don't support the schools opening, not because of science and logic, but because I didn't like someone's post on the internet!'

I'm not a member of the group, by the way (they know that honey catches more flies - but I'm so beside myself at the suffering of the kids that I can' be calm). But, I do support them, obviously.

‘I support them but am not a member’

‘I’m not affiliated with them’

All weasel words. We see you.

All weasel words. We see you.

You're a conspiracy theorist.

I wouldn't know how to become a member, nor am I interested in them. I just agree with them.

If people who agree with their ideas but then change their mind because they think someone else who agrees the same ideas is horrible, then they are just weathercocks. Subscribing to tribes, not logic.

@Temptashun

I was reading this thread and wondering about people's views and where I stood. Somewhere in the middle usually. Then I read your post and it helped me make up my mind. Definitely astroturfing and I'll give that group and it's views a hard pass.

Hahaha.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. Making decisions on emotion and supporting a particular tribe.
'I don't support the schools opening, not because of science and logic, but because I didn't like someone's post on the internet!'

I'm not a member of the group, by the way (they know that honey catches more flies - but I'm so beside myself at the suffering of the kids that I can' be calm). But, I do support them, obviously.

I would never support them because I'm wary of any group down playing this pandemic. It's not emotion, it's opinion. I stay well away from anything that includes obvious conspiracy theory tropes. I read the posts from people who align themselves with this group and I know that we are fundamentally different in our outlooks on pandemics and life. Hope you understand better now.

I was reading this thread and wondering about people's views and where I stood.

I would never support them because I'm wary of any group down playing this pandemic

This is a bit contradictory, no?

So said that you wouldn't support them because of me, but in fact you'd never have supported them anyway?

You were just lying about the me solidifying your opinion then?
Or, if you're lying now, because you've realised that you'd made one of my own points for me....

I don’t have time to read the whole thread but this group is it there to counteract teacher’s unions? I know someone who is in it and she is definitely influential for lots of reasons which I won’t disclose here. So I wouldn’t underestimate them.
But interestingly whenever I have voiced my own opinion about schools, the usual posters on here claiming to be teachers have accused me of being part of them. Don’t you realise that is not a good tactic?!

wouldn't know how to become a member

I'm sure that's handy when it comes to be able to claim you're nothing to do with them, merely coming onto MN with a brand new username to defend their views on a thread all about how they're a shady campaign group with dodgy funding sources.

Odd for someone with no interest in them to be so well informed and defensive of their views, don't you think?

usforthem.co.uk/our-campaigns/not-ok/

• not OK - this part calls for pretty much a return to absolutely normal schooling with all the wrap around care and no mitigation for the pandemic or staff or anyone at all.

I can't believe how reckless and cruel these people are, I really can't.

Additionally, studies show that children are at extremely low risk from the virus, and nor are they major transmitters of it.

We believe that measures in schools which disproportionately impact children should be dropped.

Leading medical organisations and experts overwhelmingly agree schools should remain fully open. The evidence for schools being closed or socially distanced is weak and the risk to children’s future – and indeed present – far outweighs any risks of schools remaining open.

^^ I despair.

The thing is, everyone really wants schools back. But some of us want schools back with proper mitigation and infection control measures in place.

And others appear to be swivel eyed loons dancing the right wing Tory tune. With a bit of hand san and teacher bashing along the way.

whenever I have voiced my own opinion about schools

Which just happens to be exactly theirs. I remember you. Not a member, simply a friend of Us4Them.

There you go again @Noblegiraffe - I agree with some of your points about safety measures but where you totally alienate those of us in the middle who are just working parents is if you keep harping on accusations about being a part of this group. It just makes me think you are paid for teacher unionist!

she is definitely influential for lots of reasons which I won’t disclose here.

Interesting-I wonder what would make someone declare that.

@Justthebeerlighttoguide

Additionally, studies show that children are at extremely low risk from the virus, and nor are they major transmitters of it.

We believe that measures in schools which disproportionately impact children should be dropped.

Leading medical organisations and experts overwhelmingly agree schools should remain fully open. The evidence for schools being closed or socially distanced is weak and the risk to children’s future – and indeed present – far outweighs any risks of schools remaining open.

^^ I despair.

So whoever you are quoting - the WHO thinks that schools school go back only with social distancing, at least 1m space between kids in corridors, small bubbles, masks for over 12s.

This is all based on scientific opinion.

They are THE leading medical organisation and THE experts.

How are we not listening to them? How?

schools should

@Temptashun

I was reading this thread and wondering about people's views and where I stood.

I would never support them because I'm wary of any group down playing this pandemic

This is a bit contradictory, no?

So said that you wouldn't support them because of me, but in fact you'd never have supported them anyway?

You were just lying about the me solidifying your opinion then?
Or, if you're lying now, because you've realised that you'd made one of my own points for me....

It's not contradictory. I knew nothing about this group before the thread, so was trying to weigh up how I viewed them. You came along knowing a lot about them and, from what you posted, I knew where I stood on their agenda.

You've just accused me of lying. I think my views on you have just been enforced.

It just makes me think you are paid for teacher unionist!

Another of their regular claims.

Projection, perhaps.

It would really help if those people who claim not to be members instead of aligning themselves with the group they seek to maintain distance from while bigging up, acknowledged that actively campaigning to lower safety measures in schools in a pandemic is probably not the best way forward.

Odd for someone with no interest in them to be so well informed and defensive of their views, don't you think?

Actaully, what does it matter if I'm a member or not (I'm not)? I agree with their views. I will also fight for kids to get back into schools.
If you've not realised from that I do a lot of reading about everything that effects my life and kids then you've not been paying attention.

The 'If you're one of them, and I think you're awful, I'll not support the schools closing because of that' replies to me are just so what I'm talking about - it's all about the fitting in, isn't it?

Just like my acquaintances who thought they'd be judged as bad mothers for not breastfeeding (they were right on that) and therefore thought that it was better to let their babies scream with hunger (they were so, so wrong on that).

This whole thread is about 'These are far right people and therefore are bad and so therefore their ideas must be bad and wrong. If I join them, I might also be thought of as bad and wrong (correct) therefore it is worth the suffering of my kids (yuck).

No actual consideration of the facts. Dismissal of all scientific studies which don't fit the world view.

This is tribal

@Musicaldilemma So whether you are or aren't a fully paid-up member of U4T, how on earth do you justify their plans to get all the kids back in the middle of a pandemic, with no extra mitigations, against SAGE and WHO advice? How is this not lunacy?

@Temptashun

Odd for someone with no interest in them to be so well informed and defensive of their views, don't you think?

Actaully, what does it matter if I'm a member or not (I'm not)? I agree with their views. I will also fight for kids to get back into schools.
If you've not realised from that I do a lot of reading about everything that effects my life and kids then you've not been paying attention.

The 'If you're one of them, and I think you're awful, I'll not support the schools closing because of that' replies to me are just so what I'm talking about - it's all about the fitting in, isn't it?

Just like my acquaintances who thought they'd be judged as bad mothers for not breastfeeding (they were right on that) and therefore thought that it was better to let their babies scream with hunger (they were so, so wrong on that).

This whole thread is about 'These are far right people and therefore are bad and so therefore their ideas must be bad and wrong. If I join them, I might also be thought of as bad and wrong (correct) therefore it is worth the suffering of my kids (yuck).

No actual consideration of the facts. Dismissal of all scientific studies which don't fit the world view.

This is tribal

So, the reading bit isn't very evident, no.

So do you not agree with the WHO recommendations and if not, what is that based on?

Do you think you know better than SAGE? If so, why?

If you've not realised from that I do a lot of reading about everything that effects my life and kids then you've not been paying attention.

I kind of drifted off at the breastfeeding bullshit, tbh. And the false scientific claims. And the claim that I'm making extremely harmful choices for my kids.

Okay, bit quiet on here now. I'm off to homeschool, but I'll pop back a bit later to catch up with the scientific discussion

@herecomesthesun - I am not justifying anything. All I can observe is that you and @noblegiraffe have been quiet for a few weeks until there is political pressure to reopen schools. So clearly you are big unionists.

You came along knowing a lot about them

I don't know anything about the members. I also don't care if they're right wing, despite being a Labour voter my entire life. I'm not supporting them so much as supporting cost-benefit analysis.

I do know about the effectiveness of masks vs the drawbacks such as speech and language and communication problems, and know that for the vast majority of families, the plusses don't outweigh the negatives. For the families with CEV, the masks won't provide enough protection anyway.
So what is the point?

Its Us for them website -

Yes directly against WHO