What is the impact on children of the months of school closures in your view?

[MTBer2021]

It seems there's a huge range of views on this and partly depends on how much your child's school is offering and whether or not there's an adult at home to spend time supervising home learning etc.

I am surprised that some well educated parents I know are so relaxed about the impact on their young children of months of school closures. People whose child would ordinarily never miss a day of school other than due to genuine illness (no term time holidays etc) but who seem very relaxed about how the current situation won't mean their children fall behind at all.

There are some people endlessly saying that children are so resilient and how in other countries they don't even start school until age 6 or 7 so there's nothing to worry about..... and there are also those who are desperate to get kids back maybe before it's even safe and teachers who worry about kids who are doing little to no home learning for various reasons.

There are ways to manage home learning for some and I know some kids are happier at home than at school but is it really a popular and informed opinion that the current situation will have no lasting impact on kids and can all be easily remedied when schools open (whenever that is) and with no specific catch up programme?

Usually when a parent states schools were shut, there's always teachers jumping at the bit to say schools never closed. So which is it?

Isn't this a bit of a stupid question? We all know that schools were open to kw and vulnerable children through last year's lockdown - even during holiday periods fwiw. However, we also know that schools were closed to the majority of kids from March until September. Surely it's obvious that the teachers were still working in schools while only kw and vulnerable children were in, but at greatly reduced risk due to the relatively low number of kids in school, greater potential for social distancing etc.

I think it's pretty obvious that this would have a significant impact on transmission levels, and that teachers were therefore at much greater risk in the autumn term than they were earlier in the year. Consequently, stats that look at the whole March-December period as one will almost certainly underestimate the risk to teachers in September-December when all of the kids were in.

I'm not a teacher, but this is just common sense.

But you can understand why teaching staff feel nervous when so little was put in place before Xmas?

Yes, I can, absolutely. I just find some of the posts here from posters who say they are teachers are unnecessarily scathingly about children. I have no issue with someone saying that they are concerned, but I am surprised how ready people who have chosen to be teacher, who you would hope have children's best interests at heart, be so ready to dismiss parents very real, heartfelt concerns.

I think that long term impact is over stated in various ways. More so for younger rather than older children.

But it is disproportionately spread. And thats part of wider preexisting issues.

I do however think short term impact is huge and the medium term impact is significant for others. And not fully being acknowledged by government in an appropriate way.

The other thing is we don't know what other curve balls are out there for the future. Saying its the loss of entire generation forever is decidedly premature and over dramatic.

If this pandemic teaches that we need less of certain consumer items and focuses attention in other ways, the time now may shape a generation in a positive way in ways we cannot currently fully comprehend. Necessity and adversity drive innovation and change. Hardship can be expressed through creativity. From the ashes springs new life if you will.

Right now we are too close to the point of origin to truly be able to disentangle ourselves from the shittiness.

How we go forward matters. Demanding more for education rather than demanding teachers bleed is the way to go.

I don’t get the stress about it to be honest. I totally empathise with the impossible task working parents have to juggle work and home learning, I get that some children need the structure and social interaction. I also worry about vulnerable children where their safe place is school. But from an education only point of view - nah massive over reaction. Education is important but far too much emphasis is placed on it, especially now. We’re in the middle of a pandemic- surely we should be more concerned with our health?
It annoys me how much pressure society puts on children- my children are encouraged to do their best, but if they aren’t top of the class or getting straight A’s that’s ok.
We are both well educated and successful parents but health and happiness are far more important. They can catch up as and when things settle- if they’re behind we’ll get them up to speed with tutors. Worry about that when it happens!

@perfect28 I dont understand what are you on about, but this just proves my point that there is no plan and no solution as teachers are not wiling to offer any flexibility.
The latest talk is of not coming back before Easter, so why not just write off February ir March and stay home.
You would still work the same no of weeks, but in April/July whenever we finally go back.

What do key worker children do in holidays normally? The same as the rest of us. What do you think most parents had to do when school closures was announced on Monday with no notice and they had work on Tuesday?
Hence my point: parents and their employers have to be now flexible as schools are closed, why the schools cant be flexible to allow children to have more in class learning when it is possible?
Yes, some people booked time off, but is not like they are going anywhere, is it? Yes, some tiny minority would have a problem with that, but it will work for most

I'm not a teacher, but this is just common sense

Not common sense.

Its ability to examine data and process them by being aware of how outside influences may have affected data collection. Its basic statistical analysis and the basis of meaningful scientific understanding.

Rather than manipulating data for a certain agenda by ignoring major changes in environment and using averages to hide statistically significant outliers.

[quote kingat]@perfect28 I dont understand what are you on about, but this just proves my point that there is no plan and no solution as teachers are not wiling to offer any flexibility.
The latest talk is of not coming back before Easter, so why not just write off February ir March and stay home.
You would still work the same no of weeks, but in April/July whenever we finally go back.

What do key worker children do in holidays normally? The same as the rest of us. What do you think most parents had to do when school closures was announced on Monday with no notice and they had work on Tuesday?
Hence my point: parents and their employers have to be now flexible as schools are closed, why the schools cant be flexible to allow children to have more in class learning when it is possible?
Yes, some people booked time off, but is not like they are going anywhere, is it? Yes, some tiny minority would have a problem with that, but it will work for most[/quote]
Leave for many key workers in holidays has been completely cancelled because they have such big problems with staff sick with covid and so many patients in hospital.

Have you been living under a rock for a while?

Nurses and doctors can not provide child care as they normally would. Its going to be enough of a struggle for some to get through half term.

Honestly the lack of joined up thinking in this country truly makes me despair at times.

Red I totally agree about adversity not necessarily being a bad thing.

It's a freshen up, a re set.....

@kingat Do you realise we are still working yes? When you say 'write off' do you mean stop offering provision/ online learning?

Do you also realise that these decisions are not in the hands of teachers? Not even close. But absolutely, blame teachers. Because it's easy and fashionable.

Another thing I wonder about generally is what do we mean when we say 'catch up'? Are we talking about comparing the progress they have made to that which they would have made? Or are we talking about catching up with other children with different opportunities? Or both?

It strikes me that much of this comes down to inequality. Many children are doing fine, many are struggling. I hate the unequal chances of the children in this country, and that's something we really need to scrutinise long after the pandemic passes.

If it wasn't for covid I wouldn't have realised how little information dd retains, that she needs to over learn and needs lots of parental involvement.

She'd still be struggling towards read properly and be unable to spell.

For my DC personally, I'm relatively relaxed. they are in Y7 and Y4 so not crucial years, at private school, with a full, live, timetable from 8.30am - 3.30pm. They each have a device, DH is currently unemployed, so able to support whilst I WFH. School will ensure they catch up once they are back in the classroom, because paying parents will expect it.

I worry about their physical fitness as they are both very sporty (15-20hrs per week usually between school & extra curriculum). School are doing their best with online, live PE and Games - they were challenged to an inter-schools, virtual 3km run on Saturday, but it's clearly nowhere near their usual activity levels and they are missing out on their specialist coaching. DD is a squad gymnast and her flexibility has vanished, I doubt she'll get it back, but she was never going to make a career out of it so it's not a huge deal.

I worry about the lack of social interaction, but they do both chat with their friends on line, so getting some sort of interaction at least.

What concerns me most though, is children who don't have enough devices at home, so maybe have to share with siblings, who might find it hard to engage online, or have parents who are working all day and can't necessarily support them. Or who get 30 mins of live lessons a day and then left to get on with things themselves. I worry about the gap between advantaged and disadvantaged children getting wider and wider, through no fault of their own and those children in crucial exam years. It just feels really unfair.

the time now may shape a generation in a positive way in ways we cannot currently fully comprehend.

I think this is very true. I had a really interesting conversation with my teenager the other day, who has been reflecting on what positives she can take away from this whole experience. She had also been discussing this with a few friends.

The general consensus was that these experiences will eventually help the current generation to be more resilient in the future, more grateful for the little things and more self-aware about the things that they need to do to make themselves happy. DD said that lots of her friends have been more conscious and proactive recently about looking after themselves, both mentally and physically, and they're getting into good habits which will hopefully continue well beyond lockdown. I have seen this first hand with dd, who has taken up running and meditation in the last year. She also felt that she had become more aware of the need to accept the things that she cannot control while being really proactive about the things that she can do.

Not bad lessons for those kids who choose to look for the positives in this strangest of years.

I was reading the BBC news online and whilst we worry about things here noted how much stricter lock down is in many countires. There was a story about a young girl age 12 in the Lebanon and she hasn't been out of her home at all:
"People in Lebanon are living under one of the world's strictest lockdowns. Under the round-the-clock curfew, citizens who are not "essential workers" have been barred from leaving their homes since 14 January.
Laila, 12, is in Beirut trying to study while her family works from home.
"We all have our own work to do and when we have meetings we hear each other. It can be a real distraction and stop you from finishing your work on time," she says.
"Sometimes I can't study well because I get stressed with all the work they're giving us. It is definitely not the same studying online as it is in the physical world."

@AlexaShutUp

That is lovely. I think we don't give children enough credit. Your daughter sounds lovely.

Thank you @FanciedanewnameAnne. She is lovely (though I may be a tiny bit biased). She has certainly helped me to stay positive throughout this period - I'm missing friends and family, have been made redundant, and have a natural tendency to downward spiral when I'm left to my own devices, but if a 15yo can stay cheerful and upbeat through it all, I reckon I don't really have any excuse not to join her!

[quote Perfect28]@3littlewords

You can't be so dense to see only a black and white picture I'm sure. You know the answer to your question so why ask it, to be facetious? Schools remained open to a small number of students. Staff worked face to face on a rota. Teachers continued to work throughout, but often from home or empty classrooms.

I can't believe I just wasted time answering a question you already knew.[/quote]
Ahh so they were open when it's convenient and closed when it's convenient dependant on what point you want to make 👍
I definitely knew the answer just making sure it was the same answer you had too as it wasn't quite clear. It was you who stated schools were shut not me

@3littlewords

Why are you trying to pick a fight with me?
Schools have never been closed, but you can't compare the risk between the school situation in March-August to the risk from September-December.

Maybe you need to take a step back eh.

[quote FanciedanewnameAnne]@AlexaShutUp

That is lovely. I think we don't give children enough credit. Your daughter sounds lovely.[/quote]
I have that feeling too to a certain extent.

The kids may not academically learn during this time. They may however learn important life lessons that they otherwise wouldn't.

I don't know that we value stuff like that enough.

A friend commented about how it had made her two teenager realise that family was more important than they had previously thought.

I think people are down and depressed and finding it really tough. Its January. Its cold. Its miserable. People are bored out of their minds. Its hard to look up when you are busy looking down trying to keep shit together right now. It doesn't mean there isnt positives to ultimately come.

Hell the positive might be a generation who realise just how fucked up inequality is. Unlike their elders...

@Perfect28, I dont blame teachers and I want government to have a plan or plans for various scenarios including next winter just in case, but any idea is met with "cant do" attidiude. So what ideas do teachers bounce about?
I want to stop pretending what we do now is as good as being in school, it is not and why can we not look for ways to make this school year better rather than just accept it.
I know you are still working, which is why I would rather stop the online schooling for few weeks in winter to have in school/open air classes in summer.
Key workers need to sort out childcare in holidays too, so same problem different time.

I don't know that we value stuff like that enough.

Agree. The "life lessons" are sometimes the most valuable ones. And we are all stuck in this situation whether we like it or not, so we may as well try to take something positive from it.

Red, most youth realise how un equal society is and then they become old..and so on.

I appreciate the positivity about life lessons

I’m not there yet for dc. I still think it’s just too much screen and no good on top

But if I had to be positive it would be more for non dc opportunities

Ie let adults take the hit and get the life lesson and feel good about that instead

Mm I don't think that is fair. Teachers have been on threads like these for months suggesting alternative situations, and decrying the fact that the schools opened with practically no changes. Changing holidays around is not very practical, for reasons I have given.

There are other options. Using bigger buildings to allow for social distancing. Students on rota, so that everyone gets some face to face teaching time as well as some home learning. Mandatory masks in all spaces. Installing sinks and building in time for handwashing rather than the vague 'wash your hands as frequently as you can' (because that's so easy when lessons run back to back and the toilets are on another floor). Temporary suspension of usual curriculum. Did you know Ofsted are still inspecting schools, including online classrooms? I'm sure there are many more, better suggestions out there. Equally I'm sure that it shouldn't be up to teachers to come up with the alternatives.

Part of the problem though is that infection rates are too high for these options at the moment. It would have been far, far better to try some of these things in September, rather than the business as usual approach the government took.

My children are much younger (4 and 1) so I don’t worry too much about their academic work and feel confident my 4 year old DD will catch up. I do worry about both of their social interaction and feel sad that DD2 hasn’t made the relationships with my family that she otherwise would have. That upsets me personally far more than DD1s schooling.

However I do feel terribly sad and worried for older primary kids. And also their parents- many of my friends are absolutely worn to the ground with working and home schooling multiple kids. On the brink of breakdown. No family support allowed, no holidays or evening out to let of steam. Just grim depressing stress from the moment they wake up until late at night. The impact this must also have on their children must be significant.

I think lockdown is the right thing right now. But I hope the second it’s released the focus when rebuilding is children and young people. Uni students and new graduates have had an awful time and children need to be the national priority IMO.