What is the impact on children of the months of school closures in your view?

[MTBer2021]

It seems there's a huge range of views on this and partly depends on how much your child's school is offering and whether or not there's an adult at home to spend time supervising home learning etc.

I am surprised that some well educated parents I know are so relaxed about the impact on their young children of months of school closures. People whose child would ordinarily never miss a day of school other than due to genuine illness (no term time holidays etc) but who seem very relaxed about how the current situation won't mean their children fall behind at all.

There are some people endlessly saying that children are so resilient and how in other countries they don't even start school until age 6 or 7 so there's nothing to worry about..... and there are also those who are desperate to get kids back maybe before it's even safe and teachers who worry about kids who are doing little to no home learning for various reasons.

There are ways to manage home learning for some and I know some kids are happier at home than at school but is it really a popular and informed opinion that the current situation will have no lasting impact on kids and can all be easily remedied when schools open (whenever that is) and with no specific catch up programme?

So yeah, he has barely seen another child, it's not what I want but we haven't been given any opportunity.

Nurseries are open. If you're really concerned, can't you enroll him for a couple of mornings a week, or something?

Nurseries are open. If you're really concerned, can't you enroll him for a couple of mornings a week, or something?

He's enrolled at a pre school. We were expecting it to open but it isn't. I have enquired at the only 2 nurseries I can get to without a car (as I don't drive) and neither have space for us to move to. So no, apparently I can't do that either.

I know some very sick dp, one has cancer, their dc go to play grounds.

Young dc always gravitate to others at play grounds, taking a ball to the park etc... Climbing a fallen log.
I've spent 10 years as a sahm taking dc to play parks to meet other dc...

Anyone who feels its suspicious that' dc are not taken out should report it and just make sure all is OK.

It's on all of us to look out for others.

Fair enough, can see it might be more difficult if you can't drive.

@kingat
That reply puts several words in my mouth.

I wonder if all those who are crying out about missed socialisation have actually taken their dc to the park at all? Play parks are still open, children can still play with others, they haven’t all been locked away like some other countries did back in March (remember Spain banned all children from leaving the home for a month? Not even allowed for a walk! Honestly you guys make out we’re the toughest country when actually our dc are allowed the most freedom!)

We can see the local play park from our house. It's always busy!

[quote kingat]@perfect28 I am talking bout moving holidays around to go to school when it is possible when it is now not possible in Feb. So not mid April, but beginning of April and if still not then July/August. You are still not explaining why is it not possible.[/quote]
I think the government could suggest moving holidays around but you would have to take into consideration the days already worked for the school year and also looking at the next school year to ensure contracts are adhered to.

I'm a teacher and I would be prepared to move the holidays if needed, but not give up my time unpaid. I'm sure that will infuriate some people but there you go.

The autumn term from Sept-Dec is always a killer with only a 1 week half term in some places so there would need to be a not of conversation around ensuring there are adequate breaks before Sept hits.

There is also the problem of critical workers shaving to find childcare at short notice if that does happen although if the government wanted to, they could allow outside providers to run holiday clubs potentially?

I just want to get back to work. Honestly, everyone I know in education does. The government just needs to make funds available for schools to put extra mitigations in place according to their needs.

Every day I am surprised at the lack of outcry about this. It's a travesty, and the country should be ashamed of itself.

[quote kingat]@Perfect28, there can be a week off at the end of Summer, if there is a will there is a way. Imagine the scientists just give up on developing vaccine because it is complicated.
I get that you prefer to be off in summer as much as I want to go on holiday, but you cant have it both ways, claim it is too dangerous to mix with all these children in school in spring and September , but plan social gatherings for August. We are all supposed to sacrifice everything to save lives, remember?[/quote]
I agree. Well said

Every day I am surprised at the lack of outcry about this. It's a travesty, and the country should be ashamed of itself.

What do you propose is the alternative, NoGoodOptions? Please don't say shield the vulnerable and let everyone else get on as normal, because we know that won't work. How would you safely get the kids back to school without overwhelming the NHS?

@AHippoNamedBooBooButt

I wonder if all those who are crying out about missed socialisation have actually taken their dc to the park at all? Play parks are still open, children can still play with others, they haven’t all been locked away like some other countries did back in March (remember Spain banned all children from leaving the home for a month? Not even allowed for a walk! Honestly you guys make out we’re the toughest country when actually our dc are allowed the most freedom!)

Playgrounds were locked up until 4th July... many, particularly in parish councils until mid-August. Many children had been denied access to school for 4 months by that point.

Our neighbourhood playground is little more than a toddler area, and the rest of the fields are a swamp. You'd need blood of anti-freeze to hang around there for enough hours for another KS2 child to pass for some incidental company.

Juniors (well 5+) are too old to be exempt from the one other person for exercise rule, and it's not the done thing to let a pair of children roam unsupervised. I might be able to get away with it with my 10 yo and his 9yo best friend... but that's not fair to arrange on my 7yo. Besides, he has no friends anymore thanks to our two-tier "education" system. His friendship group wasn't terribly secure anyway, and they've remained bonded over keyworker status, and he's fallen out of the loop and hasn't had the social skill to re-establish himself Sept-Dec. I don't know the parents to arrange any semi-illicit happening to be at the swamp park sessions. DS also does not have the social maturity to cope with Zoom/ phone calls.

He dearly misses his sports.

Each lockdown, his behaviour deteriorates. He becomes rude and uncooperative. I know it's because he's distressed. I can't let it pass, but as 25% of his social world, I have to be kind and loving too. He regresses and acts younger when he's off school.

He doesn't engage with remote learning well. He turns the camera off and mucks about. His teacher does not seem concerned by a lack of interraction or work submitted.

I went in to teaching because I believed in the power of education for enhancing life. I left because the post-Gove system didn't leave me with enough time to care for my family (DS1 has SENs, but apparently not enough for school). Knowing what the system is like, when DS1 does his SATs in 2022, the system won't care that he's missed over a third of the previous school year and however long this one is. He'll still be expected to jump through stupid, rigid hoops that determine his value by fronted adverbials and joined up handwriting (dyspraxia...)

We're already behind on DS1, his ASD diagnosis was late 2019, so EHCP application has been delayed and time out of school is a hinderence to that. We would have viewed secondaries this September in order to make an informed choice of a school that will suit his needs. At best, that will be a rush job next September. At this rate, I'll take a pot-shot on my last school as they were OK with children like DS. If I balls-up our choice of Secondary school, that could have a major impact on DS1's ability to get through the secondary years successfully.

My DCs are the lucky ones. They have a well-educated mum who already sacrificed her career, has the time to sit 1:1 with them, and the ability to understand and differentiate the work. They have a warm, safe house. Good food. Physical needs and what emotional needs I can provide (I can't be a 7yo playmate though). How many thousands are not safe? How many are being damaged by abuse with no temporary escape or reporting mechanism avaliable to them. So many safeguarding concerns are picked up from observation of little clues or a quiet conversation at the end of the lesson. How much abuse is escalating?

My 10 yo says that he can't remember normal. This is 10% of his life. 20% to a 5 year old. Development often occurs in a particular window of age groups, and for younger children, that is being missed. It is a generation problem, not directly for every child, but more children needing more resources which are already scant means less attention for all, and they will feel it to some extent. An extra couple of children struggling in class can really be felt by the rest. By the end of this, we'll be paying off the furlough, testing and vaccines... how much spare money will be avaliable to splash out on an already starved education system (and health and the rest of the public sector)

The problems a pre-schooler has are different to a primary age, to a teenager to a student, but there is too much damage being caused to u25s, and it will to a greater or lesser extent affect large swathes of this generation in differing ways.

We haven't been into a playground this past year, I find it crazy that people seem to think that kids should stay in bubbles in school then all clamor all over each other and touch the same equipment. Maybe you're all lucky and your playgrounds are right next to you, large, and you can find times they're empty, but every time we go near it's got at least a few people there and at most is packed, with half of the mothers standing about chatting, and now isn'teven within our allowed distance. And as for the 'report people who keep their children in' people, first lockdown someone called to our house and when we told them our only trips out were for one of us to do shopping, they acted like we were unhinged. We live deep in the country, have a big garden and pets, and there's 4 of them all playing together and doing Zoom with cousins and friends. It's not the same for everyone and actually if more people did it, we might get back to school sooner

It's just cooler to pretend you don't need to make any effort and that your kids spend their time catching tadpoles in jars, building forts, running around the woods and baking.

This. It's double-humble brag that allows you to get "cool laid-back parent" points AND "my kid is so naturally bright and inquisitive that I don't need to do any work with them" points.

The trouble is that less well informed and more naive parents will be taking this stuff at face value.

Socially, I really wish DS was not an only child. School plugs that gap. But academically I’ve no concerns at all. I read with him and we do bits at home but I think the curriculum is rubbish and pretty pointless. I also don’t see the need for formal schooling until 7 plus. I’ve taught children from war zones who had no formal schooling and they absolutely fly once they’re learning. It won’t do any damage to learning for the younger ones.

Funnily enough I was listening to a radio programme on this yesterday and an "expert" said - I kid you not:

Yes it probably is affecting children mentally, but we can deal with that problem once it's over"

I was astounded at the blasé attitude to our children's mental health, when anyone with half a brain cell knows what happens to a child in childhood very often stays with them for life.

We have done our children a massive disservice by allowing them to be put at the back of everyone's concerns, and it will come back to haunt us.

Pre lockdown my 14 yo was happy, sociable, sunny, enthusiastic.

He's now sad all the time (his world), unmotivated, hopeless anxious.

It's hard for all ages but it's an unnatural age to be isolated from peers just at a time he is naturally pulling away from me and finding his way.

I have to work or we will go under. My industry is severely affected but I've slipped through every crack and get no help.

DS homeschools alone day after day. It's dry and soul destroying. It's not the teachers fault- it's impossible to design engaging Lesson's especially with a no camera policy.

My heart is breaking for him. He is very resilient but this has gone too far.

I think it's utterly beyond horrific, and I don't have a school aged child. I'm an ex teacher. One of my toddlers has a nursery place and the other hasn't seen another adult in over a month - she was six months old at the start of the first lockdown and I think it did a lot of damage. She is too old to get a bubble though.
However, I support keeping the schools closed while the vaccine is rolled out because I think it will be better to just do it right and open up slowly. More rolling lockdowns and isolations dragging on for the rest of 2021 will be significantly worse.

@AlexaShutUp

Every day I am surprised at the lack of outcry about this. It's a travesty, and the country should be ashamed of itself.

What do you propose is the alternative, NoGoodOptions? Please don't say shield the vulnerable and let everyone else get on as normal, because we know that won't work. How would you safely get the kids back to school without overwhelming the NHS?

How do we know that won't work? It hasn't been tried.

In answer to the OP, I am MASSIVELY concerned about 12 year old. He is getting lower and lower every day. He doesn't game - never has, and that is how most of his peers keep up with each other. He's sees one friend a week "for a walk" - 12 year olds don't want to go "for a walk" they want to be in each other's houses, comfortable, particularly when it's peeing down with rain.

Academically I'm not so worried but mentally I am really worried.

Those of you who think there should be more outcry about this - please consider joining usforthem. Yes there are some lunatics on the FB thread, but there are also a large number of genuinely concerned parents.

I've been thinking about how I would have been if I were a child now (sorry empathy isn't my strong point so I find it hard to work how others are feeling, even my children sometimes).

Academically I've always been considered bright, I have a high IQ, photographic memory and love learning things. Academically I would probably have done much better stuck indoors at home to learn, with or without the Internet. I do remember that I learnt a lot more during those times when I was off school ill. Especially if the subject/topic was one of my interests. I read through my whole GCSE history textbook in one week that I was ill, memorising all the dates and facts about WWII, because it fascinated me. I was weeks ahead in maths, because I love maths and numbers.

But in school I struggled, mostly with the social aspect and getting overwhelmed by the number of people, noise and walking in to a classroom.

Despite the fact I would probably have done better at home, I can see how important learning to at least deal with the social aspect of school (and so life is). And I can see how important that social development is to all children (and how important socialising is to most children).

If a year ago I had kept my children indoors, not allowed them to experience the world around them, play with their peers, meet their families and friends and had kept them completely isolated, I would have quite rightly expected a visit from social services due to the damage it would do them.

And that says it all really, yes we are in the middle of a pandemic, but that behaviour hasn't suddenly become less damaging.

@Dontwanttooutmyself

*Of course you can't ask teachers to make an unnecessary sacrifice. Risk their health for other people's kids? No.*

But you can ask a food production worker to risk his or her life for other peoples' stomachs? Or a care home worker to risk his / her life for other people's grannies? By your argument, we should be closing care homes and sending the grannies back to their children's homes, regardless of how bad that would be for their mental or physical development. We are in the middle of a global crisis and therefore we HAVE to ask people to make sacrifices.

Also hospitals have full PPE and are essential. Kids can stay safe and learn from home.

NO, the point here is that kids can't stay safe and learn from home. Their mental health is suffering. Their educational attainment is suffering in ways that we cannot possibly comprehend. And for the unluckiest kids, they are missing out on the one safe haven they have.

By your arguments again, you're saying that the short term marginal reduction in risk of 1 million adults is being prioritised over the long term welfare of 8 million children.

There is a valid discussion about schools being a driver for transmission, and that to me is the most important conversation to be having. There is ample data to show teachers are at no higher risk than the general population, so the "what about the teachers" argument is of far less importance.

Your final statement is unfair. Some children are fairing better than others, just as some school staff are frightened and others are not phased. We need to be looking at each element of society - the long and short term consequences. A collapsed NHS will impact on us all. Some children's mental well being will need serious support after this. There are no easy answers. But to say all children are being thrown under the bus is as accurate as saying all teachers are lazy and need to take the risk and get on with it. No easy answers.

Very good OP. I hate the use of the word resilient as some sort of stick to beat parents and DCs with and keep DCs from being near the top of the agenda as they should be.

I will never forget in Scotland the queues of mostly elderly people when the garden centres opened end on May along with golf clubs and tennis, meanwhile we were being told that schools weren't going to reopen in any format because our term ended a whopping great 2 weeks before England so it just wasn't worthwhile.

I do not like what Usforthem has become, but at least it forced school closures onto the agenda. Certainly first time round neither Scottish nor British government had them anywhere near the top of the list - because DCs are resilient perhaps?

Unfortunately at the minute, I think it's right that schools are closed for most of us. All I ask is that it's for the absolute minimum amount of time, and school openings take priority over most other things.

The irony is that this NHS that we're allegedly protecting won't exist in it's current format by the time our DCs are elderly. Heck I'm not even expecting it to exist in 20-30 years time when I'm 70.

I have 2 secondary age DCs and I am hugely worried about the impact of school closures.

Live lesson provision at our school is virtually nil. We have been in rolling lockdown since September, with multiple class isolations, so only about 2.5 months in school in the past 12. DCs are fed up, listless, unengaged and uninspired. Fed up of sitting in their rooms, but also fed up of 'family time'. Eldest is really struggling with MH, youngest having too much screen time.

DH and I working FT, worn out, but trying to support home learning.

We are lucky that we don't have current financial concerns, and devices and space for the DCs study. But I don't think the DCs will bounce back from this easily. And the ripples will be felt way into the future....

In the first lockdown I would have said nothing, my dcs now 8 and 5, adapted well and seemed to be fine home schooling. We had our bad days but generally it didn't seem to impact their learning or health at all.

Fast forward to this one, I am very concerned about my 8 yo. He's always had a few issues anyway but lockdown has seemed to make them so much worse. He doesn't want to go out, he seems unhappy she unable to deal with his emotions. Frequent tantrums. He gets on very well with the live lessons but it's the times in between that concern me. He's so negative. I wonder if he would be like this anyway if covid had never happened or not. But I think it's definitely brought out these tendencies much worse.

You have to retain perspective

Those using saving the NHS as a flag to fly

The NHS was on it arse before COVID

The NHS is on its arse during COVID

And the NHS will be on it's star after COVID