Is there a reason we are the country that's been worst hit economically and had the worst death rates

[velveteenrabbittales]

Trying to work out why, do we have a more elderly and unhealthy population? Has the whole thing been managed badly? Should we have resisted lockdown? We've ended up with the double whammy why is it?

@PicsInRed

Trying to work out why, do we have a more elderly and unhealthy population?

Yes, ironically, our Achilles' heel is that we've been good at keeping people alive who might not have survived elsewhere. Further, our relative wealth and western lifestyle exacerbates acquired conditions which contribute to higher covid morbidity in the young. We're then struggling as a large number of these otherwise unhealthy or end of life (but medically stable) individuals become acutely unwell all at once - a demand no health system can meet.

I agree that this is one of the factors

Bozo

What @SpicyChickpeas said, plus (mainly) the government putting profit for their corrupt, nasty mates above public health or the economy. It was all about how the rich could profit from this all the way through, just like Brexit. Many other countries have suffered too, and many others have been mismanaged, but our government along with Trumps have been the very worst.

Obesity levels with co-morbidities, elderly population and a mutli cultural society who are more vulnerable to Covid.

Since age is the main risk factor,
and being kept alive by good quality health systems in spite of chronic health conditions,

Need to compare with only countries that have relatively old populations. So that means compare to Italy, Germany, France, Japan, Belgium (most of Europe).

Given how young their population is, Iran is probably the worst affected country in the world for mortality.

Economic hits should be measured as annual % reduction in GDP, right? Who actually leads on that league table? I wouldn't be surprised if Iran, but they have sanctions woes, too.

A mixture of factors, many mentioned in this thread.

I do feel that govt incompetence and indecision has much to answer for. My sense is that they have, all along, been torn between different strategies/competing interests and thus been unable to put out clear, consistent messaging. It doesn’t help that the cabinet is essentially composed of dunces, also-rans and nasty pieces of work. I very much blame Boris for that.

Track and trace has been a pretty dismal failure. They seemed to spend the first lockdown messing about giving contracts to their cronies instead of creating any proper systems. Then Dominic Cummings happened ...

Boris tells people what to do then says oh we know you don’t want to do it, boo hoo I hate having to tell you to - you’re the PM Boris, take some responsibility, ffs.

In terms of the economy, it’s a great shame Brexit has happened at the worst possible time and again that the govt’s incompetence continues to magnify the impact and levels of preparedness.

@EvelynBeatrice

A statistician friend told me that the U.K. have some of the most sophisticated data collection and statistics gathering systems in the world. We’re also very honest....this is not the case elsewhere. I’m no Brexiteer but even in Europe look at the EU audit data etc.- other countries routinely under report and are creative in the accounting. I don’t believe for a minute that we are massively out of step with different countries. Our leading stance - which is probably less than it seems - is probably partially attributable to the large numbers of U.K. people afflicted by obesity which massively increases your risks.

I was about to post the same thing about our honesty.

And I agree about our obesity/western lifestyle and I think this is coupled with our healthcare system being accessible to all which prolongs life much more effectively than they would in other countries.

I think @MaxNormal pretty much has it.

Indecisive government

“My sense is that they have, all along, been torn between different strategies/competing interests and thus been unable to put out clear, consistent messaging.”

Yes ^

“It doesn’t help that the cabinet is essentially composed of dunces, also-rans and nasty pieces of work. I very much blame Boris for that. “

🤣

idon’t think there’s great scientific evidence to back up advising the population to start taking vitamins and sleeping on their stomachs (I have never heard this).

Yes vitamin D is very well evidenced eg [[https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12020-020-02597-7 here]. I remember it being suspected right at the start when places getting initially worse hit were on a similar line of latitude.

Sleeping on stomachs is very well known amongst OTs and Physios working with Covid.

Yes these are two things you should definitely be doing under prevention and helping yourself when you are ill

Years of underfunding of essential services like NHS (to make people better) and police (to enforce rules), huge rise in number of food banks indicative of high levels of poverty which then lead to increased obesity, shocking levels of government incompetence in terms of pandemic preparedness and also handling the crisis, a population who take umbrage at being told what to do, not helped by the government constantly leaking stuff to the press before they announce it and a figurehead people don't really trust (and the whole Barnard Castle business) leading to people thinking 'fuck it, I'm not pulling together with these idiots, I'll do what I want' etc etc.

Fair to say it's a number of factors working together. But a lot of them seem to lead back to the Tories.

Too many mistakes - not firing Dominic Cummings and too many idiots thinking they were then free to break the rules too.
Locked down too late. Compulsory mask wearing too late. Too many people thinking the rules didn't apply to them.

Just to be clear the sleeping on your stomach is if you are coughing and I'll, not preventative.
Vit D is preventative

We've got the 40th highest BMI according to the WHO. So it can't just be that

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index

People saying "it's because of our western lifestyle" - you know there are many western countries with similar population profiles who have done much better? Mainly because their governments took decisive action and the public were willing to follow restriction. The UK and US have a significant number of anti-maskers and covid deniers.

The claim that the UK is more honest than other western countries is a strange one too. The same UK that did not include care home covid deaths in the official figures for months.

UK rejects calls to publish detailed data of care-home deaths from COVID-19
www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN22P2QO

Totally agree sakura

Lockdown too late and downplaying the severity until it was too late
Borders wide open and No real enforcement of isolation of travellers
Dominic Cummings Clearly broke the rules and was praised for it
Contracts for mates
World beating track and trace
Communications have been terrible and backtracking has undermined a lot of confidence. No need for masks in April but now they are mandatory. Schools are safe, keep your kids at home
Tiers

And now we are actually rolling out the vaccine and The NHS are doing a good job, they arse it up by not following the manufacturers guidelines about dosage.

And we're 33 in the percentage of the adult population who are obese
obesity.procon.org/global-obesity-levels/

Our death rate per 100,000 of population is virtually the same as Italy.

However, the U.K. is also very densely populated, the second most obese country in the EU (I know we’ve left now!!), and has a relatively high proportion of residents from different ethnic backgrounds who appear to be more at risk. Also the U.K. is a international business/travel hub with more overseas visitors than many other countries.

Different countries have different systems to record deaths - the U.K. uses the “positive test within last 28 days” method, other countries don’t.

These factors alone make comparisons impossible.

The claim that the UK is more honest than other western countries is a strange one too.

Exactly. We've got the most corrupt, lying government ever too.

We’re also very honest....this is not the case elsewhere.
Snort

The fags and the chipper don't help.

[quote PeppermintSoda]And we're 33 in the percentage of the adult population who are obese
obesity.procon.org/global-obesity-levels/[/quote]
New Zealand is 22. Obesity is an issue once people get it, as overweight people tend to get it worse. It's not a cause of it spreading - it's decisions made too late and people not following the rules.