So it looks like we're being prepared for children not to go back until after Easter

[choosingcrumble]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/children-face-months-at-home-as-schools-stay-shut-until-easter-wp5ltpm82?fbclid=IwAR1l0gRSzuJLIv508reRmBEojbYfoGOsWwe3_pBFmKpA4EbI1IgC5dKC2uE

I suspected it wouldn't be until then, let's just hope that it doesn't stretch into the summer.

@starrynight19

doublefaced Six of us caught covid in my class. If I had been vaccinated I may not have caught it but the other children would have. In one family alone the student passed it on to her siblings / parents and grandparents and put one of them in hospital. This would continue to happen even if teachers are all vaccinated. Can you not see the issue of wider community transmission ? Fwiw I am I school full time as is every member of staff in my school due to the number of kw/v children currently attending. This isn’t about teachers not wanting to do their jobs.

Except we’re vaccinating the most vulnerable so the children aren’t passing it on to people who are likely to end up in hospital.

thebabe, I agree and I suspect a lot of parents will be requiring schools to treat people equally under the rules eg if a critical worker or if poor wifi or no laptops at home etc. If necessary groups of parents who qualify for a school place may have to send a legal letter to the head.

@MarshaBradyo

You’re asking the wrong question there, as clearly there’s nothing I can do about it. The right question is “How will the government maintain these current small class sizes?”

so no solution to size issue beyond double school and staff resource ok let’s wait for that. All for it.

While we’re waiting masks great, ventilation fab. Anything else?

Are you up for all students back in with masks and ventilation?

Not unless we can exclude students for non-mask wearing.

In my experience, you'll end up with about 25% of students not wearing masks.

And I don't actually think a cloth mask is enough protection for the students forced to sit shoulder to shoulder with each other.

More ventilation, great, but how is that actually achieved? I'd literally need new windows in my classroom to achieve better ventilation- only 4 of them open (by design).

But no, I think schools need some social distancing in order to be reopened straight after half term. And I think this is only achievable through rotas.

How would non education staff like it to be dictated when they should have their holidays!!??

Actually, people in all kinds of occupations routinely have their holidays messed around with. It's pretty common.

@ChevyCamaro

It's weird how everyone someone says " vaccinate teachers now" there's a lot of "but".. Surely if teachers get vaccinated by mid Feb, all schools can open fully by mid May at the latest?? Yes I know " but community transmission" and "vectors" but what's the alternative?? To keep children from mixing with each other for years? No football? No swimming? No dance class? No hanging out with each other? Until when? Because apparently part time school is not an option and this virus is not going anywhere. Of course there will still be community spread. You can't eradicate that. But teachers were on here for months saying they were scared and unsafe..so, once the very old and the very vulnerable are vaxxed ( happening at a good clip now) and the teachers are also vaxxed, surely the community spread will put a less severe strain on hospitals? And teachers will no longer be so at risk??

This is the plan, isn't it? Once the vulnerable are vaccinated and protected and the strain on the hospitals has diminished, then we go back?

I'd imagine some mathematical modellers somewhere are figuring out how prevalent we can allow the virus to get in the non vulnerable population and still manage to maintain functioning health care. There's presumably a tipping point, where even if it spread "herd immunity" style through the remaining unvaccinated population, we could still cope with it as a country.

@Musicaldilemma

The thing is it is reasonable foreseeable that by November 2021 there will be a new strain that has taken hold and current vaccinations won’t be effective or as effective. So the NHS will be overwhelmed again. It is a question of working out how many extra deaths it means and if those extra death means the rest of the country need to give up a proportion of their lives, the sacrifices for some are much greater than for others.

The virus thrives in cold weather and affects the elderly and those with health conditions more than the young. I mean the virus might be a virus that has evolved to get rid of the ill and the sick that have been kept alive by modern health care systems and will continue to evolve to infect them one way or another, despite lockdowns, what then? Countries with younger populations and warmer weather have less of a problem.

Many people do not believe this a temporary situation anymore so solutions need to be found to educate children in person now. Other countries have managed it better - why can’t we? On the education front we are definitely failing our young compared to other countries, and that is where we need to be looking. That is why a court case would be interesting, an actual judgment on all the facts and minimum standards etc.

It's not reasonably foreseeable if we get cases down to a much lower level. We are seeing lots of new variants because cases are so high.

If we only have a very few people with covid, then there is much, much less chance of a dangerous new mutation.

@Musicaldilemma

The thing is it is reasonable foreseeable that by November 2021 there will be a new strain that has taken hold and current vaccinations won’t be effective or as effective. So the NHS will be overwhelmed again. It is a question of working out how many extra deaths it means and if those extra death means the rest of the country need to give up a proportion of their lives, the sacrifices for some are much greater than for others.

The virus thrives in cold weather and affects the elderly and those with health conditions more than the young. I mean the virus might be a virus that has evolved to get rid of the ill and the sick that have been kept alive by modern health care systems and will continue to evolve to infect them one way or another, despite lockdowns, what then? Countries with younger populations and warmer weather have less of a problem.

Many people do not believe this a temporary situation anymore so solutions need to be found to educate children in person now. Other countries have managed it better - why can’t we? On the education front we are definitely failing our young compared to other countries, and that is where we need to be looking. That is why a court case would be interesting, an actual judgment on all the facts and minimum standards etc.

New variants are a big concern. Also interested in legal side

[quote Nellodee]@ChevyCamaro yes, schools were unsafe for teachers, but if you think that's why they shut, you don't understand how this government works. They are shut because they affect the national R of the virus and we do not have the infrastructure to cope with the amount of sick and dead people we would have if they were open.[/quote]
This. The health of teachers is of zero concern to the government. School closure has been an integral part of wider restrictions to reduce the spread of the virus so that the healthcare infrastructure can cope with it.

Teachers may move up the priority list somewhat for vaccinations when schools reopen fully, but only so that it is less likely they will need to take sick leave which would impact the ability of schools to operate effectively.

@Musicaldilemma many other countries have had remote learning for far longer throughout the pandemic than this country. My friend is an eminent epidemiologist in the US and she was telling me about how parents over there were begging to go back 'like the uk' (she knew we went back unsafely). My cousin teaches secondary level in Dubai, been online since last March. Other countries have been mentioned earlier in the thread.

Sometimes it feels like schools will never go back to normal when I feel anxious :/.
I might of misheard this but didn't govt say once the top four groups had one jab we could start to reopen? There target for that was Feb 15th and now there is leaks saying no school before Easter?
They should of made v clear this was not Short term again or did they and I missed it ?

I’m off on holiday (if it isn’t cancelled) on the 24th July. This was the holiday I was due to go on last July.

For goodness' sake, do you REALLY think that holidays are going to go ahead as normal this year?

[quote catgirl1976]@TiersBeforeBedtime bit dramatic. No one is asking you to spend your whole life like this. Hopefully about 6 to 9 more months.

Pop in to your local intensive care and tell the NHS staff there that people were dying of things before COVID and they should buck up and enjoy life a bit more.

You sound like the sort of person who would have put your lights on during the blitz because life's too short to sit in the dark [/quote]
Ok, @catgirl1976

In that case, imagine I'm a child turning three now. I would have spent a third of my life in these conditions. My entire conscious life would have been spent thinking it's normal to be indoors with stressed parents trying to work while looking after me. How many children are now having this as their formative experience? This is not living. It is existing.

I think everyone in my local intensive care would agree more than anyone that people die, all the time, and that they don't all die of Covid. You still haven't explained why your statement "people are dying" is any more meaningful now than it would have been two years ago or two thousand years ago.

Your final point is just very silly.

Do people really think the reason schools closed is because of teachers complaining?

The government couldn't give a shit about teachers. Schools closed but with the R rate as it currently is it isn't feasible for them to open.

They won't open again til it is feasible. That could be April, it could be June, it could be September. No one knows.

They were saying on LBC that it could be September.

I think I would rather the schools never close in this way again. If that's what it takes - staying closed longer - I can accept that. Shit for the kids though.

@Bilgepumper

They were saying on LBC that it could be September.

Who is they?

Of course it could be September. It could also be April or June.

I really wish people would wake up and realise that as useless as this government are, they aren't sitting on a return date and not telling us when it is. They haven't told us because it is impossible to say. We don't know what is going to happen with the numbers,the vaccines and the new variants.

@ChimaeraEgg

Of course it could be September. It could also be April or June.

I really wish people would wake up and realise that as useless as this government are, they aren't sitting on a return date and not telling us when it is. They haven't told us because it is impossible to say. We don't know what is going to happen with the numbers,the vaccines and the new variants.

No of course they are not.

NEU said May

Government hasn’t said date

[quote 3littlewords]@LucyLockdown isn't the current guidance to stay indoors and excerise once daily? If your children are playing out are there no other children also playing out or do you have the benefit of a large garden they can play together without anyone else nearby?
You realise there will be some children without any siblings to play with and without access too any outside space?

And also I never said they should be mixing now, I said it should be relaxed before Easter if that's the current time frame we are putting on schools being able to open[/quote]
Guidance to exercise once a day is very different from being 'locked up' don't you think? You said prisoners were given better treatment. Do prisoners just live at home and have 'guidance' that advises them not to go out? Children are not locked up. They can legally go outside as much as they want. They'll be able to socialise when it's safe to socialise.

NEU said May

Again though, it's pointless. Guesswork. They simply don't know.

People are desperate for certainty at this point but it would be a lot more helpful for the government just to say look guys, we don't know because it depends on the numbers.

I don’t understand the point of it all. I am meeting my kids friends on the park most days so they can have social interaction. Almost Everyone I know is doing the same. Teenagers are meeting in groups. Not messing with our children’s mental Heath any longer. Children that are isolated will suffer long term damage. And for what. The nhs will crumble anyway as there won’t be any money to fund it. If this goes on past half term we will probably start meeting in houses as well. I feel utterly miserable today. It took me the best part of hour to get my three young children dressed in full cold/wet weather gear to get them outside. I have the washing machine, drier and airer on continuously and radiators covered in clothes constantly. But if i don’t get them out of the house they go feral. Any they get homeschooled for the best part of half an hour each.

@LucyLockdown that says it’s from 3 councils?? 3 out of how many? I guess people are asking for the evidence from a source which includes the entire country and presents the raw data. Comparison with population is not particularly meaningful, it will include all those many people not working and shielding. Many of our schools in lower prevalence areas had no cases, no closures until the national one closure, that is just as relevant as it gives evidence of when opening should be considered. I believe a tiered approach has already been mentioned

I honestly get how frustrating it is. I am currently home schooling a 5 year old in a small flat with no outdoor space, while also trying to work. But there is no point speculating. At the moment I'm taking each week as it comes.

@ChimaeraEgg

NEU said May

Again though, it's pointless. Guesswork. They simply don't know.

People are desperate for certainty at this point but it would be a lot more helpful for the government just to say look guys, we don't know because it depends on the numbers.

Of course I agree.

Their guess doesn’t need airtime or print.

I don't often support the government, but even if they did say "Here are our predictions and this is when we think x will happen" people would just say "I don't believe any of the crap Prof. Ferguson comes up with, he always gets it wrong."