Thread 2 - how long will people make these sacrifices

[DappledOliveGroves]

First thread is full.

If anyone has the willpower to continue arguing, please carry on!

The ones who wont comply any longer are so very selfish, and we will continue to be in this mess because of you

Are you going to address employers making staff work in unsafe conditions? Dont you think it spreads in care homes and supermarkets? What about essential workers? And those who are not essential but their employers are making them go to work regardless. How very naive to think it's all down to rule breakers. Even Priti Patel said the other day that the vast majority of people are complying

@Dowser

Thanks dappledolive I didn’t know whether we’d be going in for round two. But now Perfect 28 has removed herself from the arena, we can all continue discussing this topic in peace.

Spirited away..I’m really sorry to hear about you losing your friend. Yes you need to see your family . Don’t feel guilt tripped into not doing so by anyone else calling you selfish.
It’s a huge loss.
I lost mine last week and as he lives so far away, I never got a visit to see him last year.

Ahh is she gone, thank god for that

@DameFanny Facts are now not just facts. It is all to do with how they are presented and reported.

For example, a supposed 'fact' being bandied about by the government is that the new strain is 30 percent more deadly.
They have presented no data to support this 'fact'.

The example that was given at the press conference was that before this new strain arrived, an average man in his sixties would have a 10 in 1000 chance of dying of Covid. That is now increased to a 13/14 out of a 1000 chance of dying. So the 30 percent is correct, but it's still only a jump from 1 percent chance of dying to a 1.3 percent of dying. Which sounds scarier , a 30 percent increase in your chance to die versus a 1.3 percent chance of dying from Covid?

Facts are not simply facts these days and need to be debated.

[quote hollyangel]@DameFanny Facts are now not just facts. It is all to do with how they are presented and reported.

For example, a supposed 'fact' being bandied about by the government is that the new strain is 30 percent more deadly.
They have presented no data to support this 'fact'.

The example that was given at the press conference was that before this new strain arrived, an average man in his sixties would have a 10 in 1000 chance of dying of Covid. That is now increased to a 13/14 out of a 1000 chance of dying. So the 30 percent is correct, but it's still only a jump from 1 percent chance of dying to a 1.3 percent of dying. Which sounds scarier , a 30 percent increase in your chance to die versus a 1.3 percent chance of dying from Covid?

Facts are not simply facts these days and need to be debated.
[/quote]
I was 😱 when I heard the news yesterday as not o my did they did a volte face and say the variant is more deadly but they also said we can’t rely on the vaccine. Once I thought harder on it though I really do wonder about the timing of this announcement. I’m in no way a denier or a conspiracy theorist I just wonder.

If a vaccine isnt guaranteed stop you getting the disease and doesnt necessarily stop you transmitting it, is it actually a vaccine? Genuine question, not being goady as I have no medical knowledge. Could someone medical explain it to me?

I don't know if you're playing dumb or what @DameFanny but on the off chance you genuinely don't know - teachers were due to go back in England after Christmas to teach face to face which is what their job is. They refused. The teachers in my children's school told the headteacher they weren't coming in, on the say-so of their union.

@DameFanny

Think you’re a little bit confused. And all of your petty name calling is getting a bit boring now.

Dismissing opinions as wrong because other people who you think are wankers have the same opinion (see your original post) is a way of shutting down debate.

At its best It’s lazy and smacks of existing in your own bubble. At its worst, it shuts down healthy debate and stops free thinking. People become scared of being called a covidiot or the far right and so don’t voice their legitimate concerns.

And if you are preaching to others about lockdown, it’s completely fair to compare circumstances.

For example, someone working comfortably from home in a huge house with grown up children has absolutely no right to lecture someone who has lost their job due to lockdown, is using food banks and scarcely able to feed their children.

@BonnieDundee
Apparently it is. I asked that question yesterday[not sure if on this thread or not]. It was explained to me that if you take the flu vaccine, that is only 50% effective at stopping someone get flu. I dont know about the transmission part.
And that the Pfizzer one being up to 95% is considered excellent, in vaccine terms.

Personally, I thought vaccines generally were more effective than that.

@Nemostripes

Today, I am not complying. My 60-year-old mum has been slowly dying of cancer for 18 months and is deteriorating swiftly now.

My brother and I had to worry that we could be stopped by the police if we go to her bedside together. I have officially peaked.

You’re allowed to support a vulnerable person. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen it in one set of rules... I’m so sorry ..but , yes go and spend some time with her, it would be inhumane not too. I can’t imagine any police officer having a hard enough heart to stop you.

@DuchessofHastings1

Thank god for this thread.

Sick of terrified people, taking in everything our corrupt media and government say.

If you say anything against Corona virus, question statistics and test results and the negative effects of lockdown, your a Covidiot and a conspiracy theorist.

Truth, Corona virus kills people, like the many viruses out there. The mean age of death is over 80 and 9 in 10 deaths have underlying health conditions. It has a 99% survival rate

The government and media are putting the drop in cases and deaths over the summer to the March lockdown but as other respiratory viruses, it drops in summer and up again in the winter. I'm afraid this will happen every winter for god knows.

Once most of the over 60s are vaccinated, they can not justify this any longer.

I agree with a PP, we should start a petition before the world ends up like this ^

Great post.

I'm not dismissing opinions because they're shared by people I disapprove of @Someonetookmyname, I'm dismissing them because they're not based on fact, or they're based on misinterpretation and muddled thinking. Can you not even understand that?

And again, drop the misery top trumps. You do not know people's circumstances, you can not make blanket statements. You will inevitably make someone else feel worse by insisting on codifying suffering that way.

@TheDailyCarbunkle

I don't know if you're playing dumb or what *@DameFanny but on the off chance you genuinely don't know - teachers were due to go back in England after Christmas to teach face to face* which is what their job is. They refused. The teachers in my children's school told the headteacher they weren't coming in, on the say-so of their union.

Not playing dumb, just not mischaracterising legitimate health and safety issues with cowardice or laziness - which is a cunty thing to do.

And many teachers did go in, for that single day when gods know how many cases were spread, until the government caught up on what the scientists were saying - and some teaching unions listened to.

Teaching 30 15 year olds in a room without space for even a metre between them, where you're not allowed to wear masks and the windows don't open more than an inch if that - that's the reality for many classes. Would you feel safe? Have you read the literature on transmission mechanisms?

Thank you @lightand

For anyone who is struggling -- there is an exception to assist the vulnerable and another one for visiting someone who is reasonably believed to be dying. Didn't want to let that pass and have people worrying they couldn't.

@DameFanny

“ I'm not dismissing opinions because they're shared by people I disapprove of @Someonetookmyname, I'm dismissing them because they're not based on fact, or they're based on misinterpretation and muddled thinking. Can you not even understand that?

And again, drop the misery top trumps. You do not know people's circumstances, you can not make blanket statements. You will inevitably make someone else feel worse by insisting on codifying suffering that way.”

I wondered how long it would be before you came out with “can you not even understand that” or something similar. It’s beyond lazy to just say you don’t agree with me because you don’t understand, and resorting to this line of argument because you have nothing else to fall back on speaks volumes about your own intelligence I’m afraid.

Discussing personal lockdown circumstances isn’t “misery too trumps”. Some people have it far worse than others. That’s a fact. As if lockdown inequality on its own isn’t bad enough, people like you don’t even think the inequality should be discussed or even acknowledged! We should just sweep this issue under the carpet presumably, whilst blindly obeying the government and repeating the only socially acceptable view (lockdown good, anti lockdown bad).

I think lots of people who were working and commuting in horrible office jobs are much happier with their lives now

Perhaps... but their days are numbered. It’ll be back to the rat race soon enough.

@Dongdingdong

I think lots of people who were working and commuting in horrible office jobs are much happier with their lives now

Perhaps... but their days are numbered. It’ll be back to the rat race soon enough.

Yeah I'm one of them as far as work is concerned. My wellbeing, health and work life balance have never been better since wfh part of the week But I'd trade it in a heartbeat to have this over.

“@Someonetookmyname that's exactly what I was thinking. Surely with all this money, any medical professional could be trained to be a a Covid only nurse or doctor in ICU, since last March? So obviously not with all the skills of a proper ICU professional, but just one specialising in Covid care?

I think some of the comments here are appalling. How do you all know lockdowns are the solution to this? Do you not care about the fallout from this? Can you not hear the distress from the people commenting here?
I think lots of people who were working and commuting in horrible office jobs are much happier with their lives now, with no consideration for all the other people suffering. I'm very lucky not to have suffered financially throughout this, but I am able to empathise with the stories I hear and realise society would be much better off if we went back to the way we were.”

@hollyangel completely agree. I can’t imagine what it’s been like for people who have lost their jobs, or those trapped in abusive relationships or even flat sharing with people they don’t like.

Apparently loads of people volunteered to help the government with covid - I would have thought some of them could have basic medical training to help with some aspects of covid care in hospitals.

I think at the end of the day.. Come the summer we are likely to have days and weeks with either no deaths or single figure deaths....

We were very close to that last year without any vaccine so it is highly likely it will happen this year.

If we are having long periods with tiny amount of deaths there is no way the public will conform to restriction...

@Dowser I'm really sorry to hear that about your dad. It must have been very traumatic.

I think we have become obsessed with keeping people alive. I watched my own mum in a care home for years....zero quality of life. In some ways I prayed for her to pass and not continue with that existence, she couldn't move or speak and had dementia.

I think we have become obsessed with keeping people alive. I watched my own mum in a care home for years....zero quality of life. In some ways I prayed for her to pass and not continue with that existence, she couldn't move or speak and had dementia.

There is an awful lot of truth in this statement. Sometimes the kindest thing to do is to allow them to go sooner rather than prolonging their life when they are not actually living. It reminds me of the phrase often used with pets better a few weeks early than a day too late.

The line of work I’m in is decimated, we’re selling our home because we can no longer pay the mortgage. Everything was going well before the pandemic hit. I’m fucking done making huge sacrifices for a virus with a death rate of 0.1%.

@nonono1

I’m sorry, that is completely unfair. Your situation makes me really angry.

I wonder how many of the lockdown supporters on here would be prepared to sacrifice their own job and home, like you have.

If the government and the media covering lockdown were faced with these sacrifices because of lockdown, it would be over tomorrow.

I guess what I’m trying to figure out, is at what point away from us does compassion stop? So, do I not buy a mobile phone because it may have minerals in it linked with child labour? So I stop driving a car due to the 40k premature deaths a year from pollution? What about clothes being made by people in unsafe conditions or cotton pickers exposed to dangerous pesticides? All our actions have an impact on the lives of others, it’s just most of those actions are far away (from the UK) so easier to ignore. I’m not quite sure what exactly I mean but it’s a thought that’s trying to take shape.