Can we unlock the schools at start of Feb?

[MeandT]

I'm totally supportive of the lockdown BUT by the end of next week, case numbers nationally will be the same as they were at end of November. Hospital admissions are falling again.

Rather than going back into tiers with the shops and food pubs open (where all the spreading happened in December), can we not issue all the teachers with N95 masks (and vaccines for the clinically vulnerable), make all the kids wear triple layer face masks all the time, and just get on with the important job of educating this country's kids in person? Starting again 1st of Feb.

AIBU to ask if we can send the kids back as soon as we hit the case rate we unlocked at on 2nd December?

IABU= no way, the cases will shoot up too quickly again, even if they all wear masks all day.

IANBU = yes, get them back before half term, the only reason it went nuts in December was because everyone was out Christmas shopping and seeing family.

I would be ok with longer school closures if they would allow some opportunities for primary aged children to socialise outdoors. It seems horribly cruel that children over 5 but not yet able to meet up on their own with 1 other child, are denied the opportunity which everyone else has, to see someone outdoors. I believe in Scotland and Wales under 11's don't count when meeting up with another adult outdoors. I strongly believe that this should be the case in England. It would make a huge difference to my DC's mental health if they could see a friend outdoors.

Coronavirus will continue to spread as ordinary flu and colds do. Once the most vulnerable are vaccinated however, Covid becomes less of a threat to life and such draconian measures as lockdown and school closures are no longer acceptable.

Accept it isn't ordinary flu or a cold is it!! So many doctors/nurses have said this.

Hence they aren't fully open right now.

We need to be clear that this means this age group are not being educated.

Whether that’s the right or wrong thing to do, let’s not kid ourselves.

I would be happy enough with the youngest children being off now, with time made up from holidays later in the year.

This however does not appear to be an option on the table.

@WombatChocolate

No they can’t go back whilst cases are still so high. Community transmission WILL rise when schools go back and that can only be acceptable if it is staring from a much lower base than we are at currently. Otherwise, the rise,from a high starting base will lead to infections being much higher than the peak we just passed.

I get that people don’t like having their kids at home and kids want to go to school. However, if they go back too soon, there will be the need for another lockdown. It is better to keep this one going for another 3-4 weeks beyond Feb half term, than to go back and within 4 weeks it’s all going horribly wrong again.

Look at the hospitalisation figures and deaths. Look at the transmission levels. They are all still really high and need to come down substantially. Over 1500 people die every day. If the kids go back to school there will be a longer period of that happening and it’s not acceptable even if you don’t like having your kids at home or they want to go to school.

Don't like having their kids at home? Or can't bear to see their MH deteriorating before their eyes.

There will be further waves, should we close schools again this time next year? Keep locking down until taxes can't pay for state education anymore.

@TheKeatingFive

Hence they aren't fully open right now.

We need to be clear that this means this age group are not being educated.

Whether that’s the right or wrong thing to do, let’s not kid ourselves.

I would be happy enough with the youngest children being off now, with time made up from holidays later in the year.

This however does not appear to be an option on the table.

I disagree that they are not being provided for though. I am spending long hours daily ensuring these children are being provided with age appropriate activities. I see every class at my school as my role right now is to oversee all of our remote learning. Including school provision for critical work and vulnerable children, we have an 85-90% engagement with our remote learning.

Those not engaged in the online remote learning we are in regular contact with and providing offline alternatives.

@TheKeatingFive

Hence they aren't fully open right now.

We need to be clear that this means this age group are not being educated.

Whether that’s the right or wrong thing to do, let’s not kid ourselves.

I would be happy enough with the youngest children being off now, with time made up from holidays later in the year.

This however does not appear to be an option on the table.

with time made up from holidays later in the year.

Taught by who?

Not the teaching staff surely, as they are currently working.
We have every teacher and TA, bar one, in schools full time.
Due to my own health issues and my role in school I am working from home, but I am working full time daily, plus many hours outside of my employed time.

I can't imagine that the kids will be back in feb. Maybe may / June time.

make all the kids wear triple layer face masks all the time

You know children start school when they’re 4 right?? You expect a 4 year old to keep a face mask on 6+ hours a day? I’ve heard it all now...

Not the teaching staff surely, as they are currently working.

Apologies, coming from a different context. I’m in ROI, no teachers are in school right now,

To those advocating early return, have you had friends or family die of Covid or suffer long Covid? Have you had friends or family not get the treatment they need for a heart attack or cancer because it’s had to be cancelled because the hospitals don’t have capacity?

There will be more of this if the country opens up again before infection rates are much lower. The leak might have passed for infection but it is still extremely high. There will be over 20,000 cases a day for several weeks. If you send schools back with those figures or 30,000 or 40,000 like we have today, you open up community transmission again from a HUGE base. Cases will rise when schools open. That’s okay if it’s from a manageable base but we aren’t there yet.

We have to suck it up even though is horrible. It’s a sacrifice for us land our kids now but the price if he alternative is much higher.

Notice the government isn’t giving dates for anything to re-open...schools or business. They are pushing it further into the future with vague mentions of Easter and spring and summer. They know that it’s important to drive it down enough and not release people too quickly...and that’s Boris who is desperate to open up and restricting liberties really doesn’t sit easily with him....he’s taken a lot of persuading by terrible data to get to this point where he’s accepted he can’t promise schools opening in Feb or businesses by March. We just have to put up with it and watch the cases drop to much more manageable levels.

Remember those in ICU units are not all over 70s. There are lots of over 60s and people of other ages too. They might not die, but they prevent the NHS giving treatment to others. Many have long stays and clog beds for ages.

If we go back to soon, the health of the nation will be seriously compromised. People, who need cancer care won’t get it, children needing routine operations won’t get them, people having car accidents might not get treated in time. It isn’t just about the elderly but the impact of the NHS being overrun with sick Covid patients and the impact it will have on us all somewhere along the line. Already people know those who died not if Covid but because they did treeated in the assay the NHS usually would have treated their non Covid conditions. How many people now haven’t been to the Dr or hospital for diagnosis because they fear catching Covid.land by the time they do get diagnosed the chance of good outcomes are gone or far less. This will happen more and more and be people we all know. This has to be minimised.

The trouble is, people can only see to the end of their nose and their own immediate situation. I know some of those immediate situations for families with kids at home are grim...but they aren’t as grim as some of the things I describe above.

Carlislemumof4

There will be further waves, should we close schools again this time next year? Keep locking down until taxes can't pay for state education anymore.

Maybe instead of trying to drive a rush back to school and "normality", posters should be trying to get the government to be pro-active in putting measures in place to get schools back in a long term sustainable manner?

I am spending long hours daily ensuring these children are being provided with age appropriate activities

Remote learning, no matter how well done, is a very poor substitute for being in the classroom for this age group.

People aren't allowed to meet up in Wales. Even outdoors.

I'm gutted for my real kids and my big kids that schools aren't open. It makes me massively sad when I think of the things my 6th formers have missed and my yr 6 is missing.

But then, I've spent nearly 2 weeks listening to dh cough his lungs up and been on high alert for any signs of him deteriorating. He is not old and has no underlying illness. But he's been battered by cv in a way that neither of us have ever been battered by a flu.
Guessing we'll have a bit of immunity for a short while now, but what if it'd gone the other way? My kids will get past all this. It may ever make them less sentimental about arbitrary rites of passage. But the death of a parent? That'd be a lot more damaging. And yes, I know it can happen at any point. But there have been too many men dying of cv round here lately and it scares me.

@Itisasecret

Plus you’re missing the huge point. Almost deliberately. The slogan isn’t about protecting life, it’s the NHS. So that is why your point about the vaccines doesn’t stand up. The lockdown isn’t about ‘Covid death’. It’s about protecting life via the NHS still being there for the millions of other curable health conditions.

The NHS won't be there if the economy doesn't get fully up and running and stay there because there won't be the funds to pay for it.

Lockdown is about protecting lives. I have a CEV sibling who works for the NHS in a hospital and for whom the yearly flu vaccine is vital, flu is a very real threat to them. They have had their first Covid vaccine now too thankfully, one of my parents as well. So hopefully we can see them soon,for the first time in a year. The same for so many families in school communities.

Because Covid will still spread and could spread between us but there's less chance of one of us becoming seriously ill.

Yes I'm at risk, so is DH, no underlying health conditions and in our 40s.Yes I take long covid seriously, I suffer from bouts of chronic fatigue myself. But life has to go on and the vaccine brings enormous hope.

It's so patronising to say people don't get how the vaccination works, most do, they also understand we can't put our lives continually on hold and particularly children who won't get this time back.

@TheKeatingFive

I am spending long hours daily ensuring these children are being provided with age appropriate activities

Remote learning, no matter how well done, is a very poor substitute for being in the classroom for this age group.

Rude.

I'd equate that to you saying to an ICU nurse why aren't you looking after 5 patients instead of 3?

Schools are providing education. It isn’t the same and I won’t be as good in lots of ways, but all the children in these year groups are experiencing the same thing of not having their normal experience.

I understand about the mental health decline and it is heart breaking to see some young people going seriously downhill. It is also horrible to know some children are being abused at home and no-one knows. And it’s terrible that some children are in poverty and cold and hungry while this happens. For all of these individuals it is a disaster. There is no doubt about that.

And families with someone having a disaster will want their children back in school, if they feel that will be the answer. Going back to school won’t provide a full answer for a lot of these issues which are bigger than schools can provide, and people need to see this too.

And if you’re living in a disaster you will want the thing that will help your child or your work or your business. Of course.

But the government has to look at the bigger picture ....and they deem that the costs in terms of life and health consequences for the entire nation of a ruined NHS and people with long term untreated noncovid illnesses are worse. That’s the bottom line isn’t it - which is the bigger evil which has to be dealt with, even if the smaller evil grows.

If your child is mentally ill and you think school will help, them of course youll want them back. But luckily I think, none of us have to choose based on our situations and the government has to choose based on the bigger picture.

It’s crap for all. It’s crap for those with Covid and their families. It’s crap for those not getting treated and their families and the consequences if that will be seen for years and years. It’s crap for those whose mental health or education is going down the swanney. It’s all different degrees of awful and I really think there are few winners...it’s about minimising the overall damage and some people will be collateral damage within that...there’s no way if avoiding that or ensuring no-one loses out, whilst reducing the overall cost.

@FrippEnos

Carlislemumof4

There will be further waves, should we close schools again this time next year? Keep locking down until taxes can't pay for state education anymore.

Maybe instead of trying to drive a rush back to school and "normality", posters should be trying to get the government to be pro-active in putting measures in place to get schools back in a long term sustainable manner?

How is looking for a return to Tier 2 restrictions for the long term driving for normality. It's far from it but a sensible balance.

Carlislemumof4

How is it a sensible balance when it won't prevent the spread of covid?

We need more measures in schools.

Rude

It’s not rude, it’s fact.

We have difficult decisions on our hands for sure. But let’s not lie to ourselves about the implications.

@TheKeatingFive I'm just getting a bit sick with the blunt language aimed at teachers from those that have no clue.

Schools must open.
Provision is poor.
Etc etc.

Rude

How is it rude!!? What is online provision doing for early years socialisation? What is it doing for highlighting children's weaknesses or identifying issues? I don't doubt that teachers are working really hard and doing their best but it really really is no substitute.

@TheKeatingFive

Rude

It’s not rude, it’s fact.

We have difficult decisions on our hands for sure. But let’s not lie to ourselves about the implications.

I guess the advantage for early years children and infant school age is that they do have the time to catch up on any missed education, if not able to access remote learning with their families.

This will hopefully just be a small blip in their total life.

None of it is ideal for anyone.
I don't really know anyone enjoying this time, we are just getting through it.
Children on the whole will come through this and the vast majority will be fine, even if finding harder right now.

Many of our children ARE still socialising, the local playgrounds are full. They are playing with friends and other children a lot, based in walking past the 4 playgrounds within walking distance of my house and my school.

Maybe we need the Scottish idea of younger children being exempt from the gatherings number- whilst schools aren't open for all. Then parents can decide if they are happy to take the risk of their children mixing with others. Children get their play and socialising, which I agree is important and this age, and probably more beneficial that learning maths and English online, and schools don't have the resulting risk that comes with that.

@TheKeatingFive

I am spending long hours daily ensuring these children are being provided with age appropriate activities

Remote learning, no matter how well done, is a very poor substitute for being in the classroom for this age group.

Whether you like it or not, or it works for your child or not, that's all we have right now.

Or do we just pile them all back into school and let the teaching
/school staff and vulnerable families members risk their health instead. Like what happened last term.

I mean, it worked so well last term didn't it?!?

It might not be a great substitute, but the real thing isn’t possible at the moment. Loads of things are an inferior version at the moment and organisations and individuals are adapting as fast as they can and making them as good as they can.

I’m sure schools are doing their best. Teachers I know are working huge hours to make resources and are online much if the day teaching classes and following up pastoral issues or going into school to do their slots with the in-school children. What else can they do really? You’re right, they can’t provide the normal socialisation, or spot all the mental health issues that are developing.

I agree that this generation of children are losing out. I suppose it’s a hit like the kids in wartime who suffered evacuation and not being with their families or who were in London and didn’t go to school for often years on end. They all lost out. Their families must have been devastated by that too. And there were long term impacts.

We are living in a bad time.

In my area the figures are far worse than the first peak. There were more cases identified in a local primary in the first week back than in the entire Sept-Dec term and have been more since despite the school running at 15 - 20% capacity.

In September secondary's did not open smoothly. There are kids locally who have 50% attendance due to repeated forced self isolation, and that was with the school reducing bubbles right down to just those who had sat within 2 meters of someone infected. They didn't even isolate whole classes.