Can we unlock the schools at start of Feb?

[MeandT]

I'm totally supportive of the lockdown BUT by the end of next week, case numbers nationally will be the same as they were at end of November. Hospital admissions are falling again.

Rather than going back into tiers with the shops and food pubs open (where all the spreading happened in December), can we not issue all the teachers with N95 masks (and vaccines for the clinically vulnerable), make all the kids wear triple layer face masks all the time, and just get on with the important job of educating this country's kids in person? Starting again 1st of Feb.

AIBU to ask if we can send the kids back as soon as we hit the case rate we unlocked at on 2nd December?

IABU= no way, the cases will shoot up too quickly again, even if they all wear masks all day.

IANBU = yes, get them back before half term, the only reason it went nuts in December was because everyone was out Christmas shopping and seeing family.

[FrippEnos]

PrincessNutNuts

The "we can't" in your example comes from the fact that the government won't expand schools budgets to allow them to do this.

The government also refused to let schools use builds such as libraries etc.

[PrincessNutNuts]

[quote bendmeoverbackwards]**@PrincessNutNuts how can schools ‘be made safer’ when most schools lack space and kids are rammed in 30+ in a classroom?

The only way this is achievable is on a rota system which I understand the government has said no to.[/quote]
Or rent more space and hire more staff.

There have been massive threads of solutions on here. And a whole world of good and bad examples to learn from.

But Britain seems to be stuck in a negative "no we can't" mindset.

[0gfhty]

[quote Turtleshelly]@oghty but other workers have a right to ppe and distancing. Teachers and pupils don’t.[/quote]
In practice though this isn't happening so it's doesn't really matter if they have a "right" to ppe

[noblegiraffe]

Someone mentioned either here or on another thread that Ireland hasn’t even opened to keyworkers. What are they doing for childcare over there?

[letseatgrandma]

I am for other mitigation, and haven’t changed on this, but the KW issue has been one that has struck me as very difficult to resolve when it comes to primary rotas

I agree, it's difficult to resolve.

Hopefully the government will resolve it by cracking down on only the essential people having a full time place though, rather than by saying it's 'a bit too hard to think about' so will just get all primary back full time at once.

I suspect they would be able to justify an earlier opening with a rota as it would be possible to ensure some measures such as distancing, but if they are just going to open full time as before, it'll be a longer wait.

[Parker231]

At the school of friends in the US, their kindergarten DD attends school Mon - Thurs either 8-11am or 1-4pm. Masks are compulsory and classes are half size. Worksheets are provided for working at home on Fridays.

[MarshaBradyo]

@Abraxan

I assume for primary (and secondary) rotas could simply be part time attendance for all. However this would mean a serious crack down on critical worker and vulnerable children places, which may not be possible.

It would be more like 50% in on Monday//Tuesday

School closed to children on Wednesday; school staff spend day doing PPA, preparing remote learning, possible a short whole class 'show and tell' type zoom, welfare telephone calls where needed, feedback in remote learning tasks, etc. School gets a good clean and aired during this time, staff can work at home or in school depending on what works best for the school/staff.

Then other 50% in Thursday/Friday.

It wouldn't be ideal for working parents, but possibly better than full time at home for many.

The issue with critical worker children would need to be addressed.

Vulnerable children may also need looking at re provision, though for a number part time may well work fine for them, so long as they are sent home with a learning pack and lunch vouchers, etc.

Thanks. With this the online interaction might not be there on days out. But with two days in this could provide motivation needed instead.

I am for other mitigation, and haven’t changed on this, but the KW issue has been one that has struck me as very difficult to resolve when it comes to primary rotas.

[letseatgrandma]

How does rota work in primary?

Nobody really knows, as they haven't ever been part of the government's plan. I expect there would be some haphazard guidance released a week after it was announced as a plan.

[Abraxan]

Sadly the governments only real stats on schools was the one which covered the summer period when school was not open to all, there was social distancing, class sizes were halved, etc. It wasn't a true reflection. And tbh what happened in schools across the country from September onwards showed this quite clearly. If you look at anecdotal data, seeing as there is little genuinely produced stats, then it's clear schools were a huge issue.

Strangely enough being in a small room with 30+ people, no social distancing, no masks, no mitigating factors means that covid spreads. Strange that?!?

[bendmeoverbackwards]

Thank you @Monkeytennis97 I’ll have a read of that.

[Abraxan]

I assume for primary (and secondary) rotas could simply be part time attendance for all. However this would mean a serious crack down on critical worker and vulnerable children places, which may not be possible.

It would be more like 50% in on Monday//Tuesday

School closed to children on Wednesday; school staff spend day doing PPA, preparing remote learning, possible a short whole class 'show and tell' type zoom, welfare telephone calls where needed, feedback in remote learning tasks, etc. School gets a good clean and aired during this time, staff can work at home or in school depending on what works best for the school/staff.

Then other 50% in Thursday/Friday.


It wouldn't be ideal for working parents, but possibly better than full time at home for many.

The issue with critical worker children would need to be addressed.

Vulnerable children may also need looking at re provision, though for a number part time may well work fine for them, so long as they are sent home with a learning pack and lunch vouchers, etc.

[Monkeytennis97]

@bendmeoverbackwards

Strategic planning to open schools safely www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4138863-Strategic-planning-to-open-schools-safely

[MarshaBradyo]

@Parker231

Rota system and masks

How does rota work in primary? Or do you just mean in secondary

Do all dc have days where they are out? Including KW

[Monkeytennis97]

@bendmeoverbackwards

Government finally considering making schools safer - masks in secondary classrooms www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4122339-Government-finally-considering-making-schools-safer-masks-in-secondary-classrooms

[Parker231]

Rota system and masks

[bendmeoverbackwards]

@PrincessNutNuts how can schools ‘be made safer’ when most schools lack space and kids are rammed in 30+ in a classroom?

The only way this is achievable is on a rota system which I understand the government has said no to.

[FoolsAssassin]

Thank you FrippEnos Given all this I don’t understand given all this how Us for them think it is safe for children , teachers and parents for schools to return as things stand.

I have noticed a big increase in cases amongst local schools the last 2 weeks which is extremely bad news as already patients are having to be taking to Exeter Nightingale, tents were up in the local hospital grounds to cope with the ambulance queue and the police have been assisting with ambulance driving.

Maybe one of them who were on these threads yesterday would mind coming back and explaining their thinking in detail as I don’t understand it. I would like to be clear when I am contacting my MP and I’m sure others would like to be too.

[PrincessNutNuts]

[quote Monkeytennis97]@PrincessNutNuts Yup I wrote 4 times to my Tory MP whilst being in the thick of it in school last term. I stated measures that could be taken to improve school safety. I had 2 responses both stating schools are safe yada yada yada.[/quote]
You can bet the well-funded libertarian groups who don't give a shiny shit if our children and their teachers are safe or not will have been lobbying hard, so those of us who want schools to be safer not just "open, regardless" have to do the same.

Our opinion will be on record. As will the gaslighting response.

[FrippEnos]

FoolsAssassin

So the people on here claiming there are studies are lying basically? I don’t like saying that as it is a strong accusation.

People are saying that the data is massively flawed.
Data taken from small numbers of pupils, socially distanced.
Cannot be considered even remotely close to data taken from schools that are full, with no social distancing etc.

If they genuinely have the best interests of children at heart then they will be back to produce valid data backing up what they are saying.

The government has repeatedly refused to release data from when schools were fully back and has refused several requests for FOI.

[FoolsAssassin]

@Monkeytennis97

The lobby group who actively campaigned for no safety measures in schools prior to September reopening are now getting oxygen on the front pages again. How on earth can this be?

I agree (though waiting to see the studies that allegedly exist before I definitely agree).

Think it is time that the rest of us contact our MP’s as Us for them have suggested as I don’t think they should be hearing from just one sector of society only. the Government listened to a group of people who shouted loudly in September, now many more people are dead and we have a very infectious variant plus others coming in the country. It would be tragic if the excellent work of the vaccination program is jeopardised at this point .

I will be asking what plans are being drawn up to ensure the safety of children, teachers, and parents and for them to look at data from other countries as well it come up with a coherent plan that covering several scenarios.

www.writetothem.com/ makes it easy to find and contact your MP.

[Monkeytennis97]

@PrincessNutNuts Yup I wrote 4 times to my Tory MP whilst being in the thick of it in school last term. I stated measures that could be taken to improve school safety. I had 2 responses both stating schools are safe yada yada yada.

[PrincessNutNuts]

We all should write to our MPs to demand better for our children.

It's been a year and still all they have is schools open/schools closed.

We need a medium to long term plan for our children's education.

We need schools to be safer.

[Monkeytennis97]

The lobby group who actively campaigned for no safety measures in schools prior to September reopening are now getting oxygen on the front pages again. How on earth can this be?

[Monkeytennis97]

@mrshoho

^Disappointed no studies have been linked yet. I find it pays to be open minded and really want to see the ones the poster referred to.^

There won't be any studies. The government used data on schools transmission from when they had reduced opening last Summer. The government and their scientific spokesperson told us classrooms were covid secure as teachers would keep a 2 metre distance from students and the students wouldn't turn their heads left or right. Oh and that they would all wash their hands, wipe their desks and open the doors and windows. And of course no masks as they would have been detrimental to teaching. All this for an airborne, highly infectious disease. Scandalous and yet some people want to do it all over again.

Exactly this.

[FoolsAssassin]

@mrshoho

^Disappointed no studies have been linked yet. I find it pays to be open minded and really want to see the ones the poster referred to.^

There won't be any studies. The government used data on schools transmission from when they had reduced opening last Summer. The government and their scientific spokesperson told us classrooms were covid secure as teachers would keep a 2 metre distance from students and the students wouldn't turn their heads left or right. Oh and that they would all wash their hands, wipe their desks and open the doors and windows. And of course no masks as they would have been detrimental to teaching. All this for an airborne, highly infectious disease. Scandalous and yet some people want to do it all over again.

So the people on here claiming there are studies are lying basically? I don’t like saying that as it is a strong accusation. If they genuinely have the best interests of children at heart then they will be back to produce valid data backing up what they are saying.

I will reserve judgment until I have seen this and then I think it’s time to write to my MP, the Government’s track record on education has been appalling.