417 dead

[Standandwait]

417 people under 40 have died of CV in hospital in England from when the pandemic began to Jan 16, according to the NHS. Another 4,081 under 60 have died.

This is out of 60,921 total deaths NHS England recorded; by comparison, gov.uk counts 89,261 deaths total in England to Jan. 17, but they don’t break it down by age group. The quickest glance at deaths in care homes suggests those basically explain the difference in the two totals. I assume it's possible to come up with comparable figures for Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, too -- I just happen to live in England and got tired.

Lord knows, I'm not looking to "kill granny." I have a lot of dearly beloved family over 80, and am closer than not to 60. I also have a disabled child, which means I know not only him but many other very vulnerable families. I have followed lockdown rules quite faithfully, myself.

But I really, really am beginning to have grave reservations about locking down again and again. If you feel otherwise, please talk me around.

Joy another one of these threads

Original poster you are so wrong that you make Boris look smart

archery 💐

Thank you, womanaf!

@Icenii It’s because men’s lives are more disposable so the grandad example wouldn’t evoke as much sympathy.

If you don’t believe me, ask why the most powerful nation in the world makes male youths sign up for military draft to get state benefits (education funding etc) that girls get for free.

It isn't only deaths of the 4 people i know who died all under 70.
My Dbro thought he sailed through it before Christmas he is now suffering breathlessness.
Those in their 80's won't taking up hospital beds if they become ill in a care-home they'll die or recover there.
As the recovery from ventilation takes a few weeks decisions on who is fitter or unlikely to recover well will be made to see who gets put on ventilation.

@SabrinaMorningstar

More and more I think we should just respond to threads like this with: No.

Talk me round? No.
Explain to me the facts I've been ignoring? No
Tell me why I'm not the exception and should follow the experts? No.

Because there is screeds if information available and if people choose to ignore it or wilfully misinterpret it then a thread on here isn't going to change their mind and their half-cocked theories don't deserve further publicity or time. The most they merit is a grey rock.

I'm coming round to this way of thinking.

I wonder if lockdown sceptics ever have their minds changed by these threads. I wonder that because they always seem so wilfully obstinate, narrowing down further into their position and simply refusing to listen even when most of the posts talk sense with great clarity backed up with facts, statistics and reality.

I wonder what the point is in engaging, but then I hope that perhaps one might listen and change their minds, and possibly lead to less lives devastated in the end.

@ArcheryAnnie I am so sorry. I live long term illness so understand. I really hope you are feeling better soon

Perhaps we should allow people to disregard lockdown on the proviso that they sign a disclaimer that they’re happy to not receive treatment for any covid related illness. 🤷‍♀️

A quarter of covid patients in hospital are under 55 and some hospitals are having issues with oxygen supply for cpap. It's not just about dying.

You really can’t compare the US stats as a whole to the UK. The spread of the virus and measures taken have varied massively across states and you lose the detail. Sure if you want to play a ‘my country is better than your country’ game go ahead, but it tells you nothing of substance.

Of course it would be stupid for us to overwhelm the NHS now, but it's my understanding the NHS is here to look after us, not the other way around.

This is possibly one the most nonsensical statements I've ever read. Seriously, you typed that, read it back and thought, yip, that's the opinion I want to express?!

@m0therofdragons

Our icu has 15 beds with 22 icu patients in it and high levels of staff sickness. If we don’t lock down this will be worse and more planned operations will be further delayed so people will die of cancer etc because you can’t find a bed for recovery from a biopsy because it’s full with a patient who can’t breathe due to covid. What do you say? Cancer trumps covid so send covid patients home to die and save the cancer patients?

This is one single example wirh 122 patients in icu. We know a good many of those patients are under 60 now. They’d all be dead if we hadn’t locked down as they wouldn’t have got into the overloaded icu. And the lot before them would be dead too as they wouldn’t have made it in. But let’s say just one lot, that’s one hospital, one point in time and 122 people.

@bobbojobbo

I can't be fucked talking you round. You seem to be yet another person who thinks that the lives of the old and or vulnerable are somehow worth less than other peoples. And who still doesn't get that its not at all just about deaths. I don't care what you think about lockdowns, you don't get a choice in the matter. People far smarter than you are saying this is what we need to do, so put your mask on, keep your opinions to yourself, and get on with it.

What she said. With bells on!!!!!

yes, go and read or listen to Chris Whitty.

Independent Sage is here www.independentsage.org/

Because there is screeds if information available and if people choose to ignore it or wilfully misinterpret it then a thread on here isn't going to change their mind and their half-cocked theories don't deserve further publicity or time. The most they merit is a grey rock.

Yes, this. People like the OP are fully aware of the facts, they just choose to ignore them, and nothing we say is going to change that. I'm not wasting more of my time trying to reason with them.

The nation is divided on this. We just have to hope it will soon be over and we can get on with life again.

@Babyroobs

It's also not just about people dying. I know a lot of people including my own 21 year old son suffering from long covid with no idea of when things might improve. The NHS and maybe community health services are also going to have to deal with these long term effects. It's not just a case of people either dying of it or having a mild illness, there are huge numbers in between left long term disabled from this horrible virus. Look at Kate Garraway's husbands - severely ill in hospital since last march and numerous people in the community still on Oxygen therapy .

This is highly regrettable, and I do sympathise with those suffering long term complications, but I don’t think mere illness in a small minority of people is a valid enough reason to remove the civil liberties, and destroy the lives of millions and millions of people

I don’t think people understand the full implications of this policy.

It’s because men’s lives are more disposable so the grandad example wouldn’t evoke as much sympathy.

What a nonsensical thing to say. Of course people love their grandads. And of course men aren’t disposable. What do you mean by disposable anyway? Are you saying that men aren’t valuable to society bcs that’s pretty misandrist if so.

I know most of the nurses doing the frontline work are women but there’s lots of male doctors and nurses who are working their socks off.

but I don’t think mere illness in a small minority of people is a valid enough reason to remove the civil liberties

My cousin had COVID at the beginning of the pandemic and still has problems with her breathing.

@ItsIgginningtolooklikelockdown

Is "under 40" significant in some way? We aren't living in Logan's Run.

Probably because the OP is under 40

What more slap in the face reason do you need to see that lockdown is necessary? Maybe if we started off with double the NHS capacity you may have a point. But we don't.

This This This

Try thinking for a change instead of starting another stupid thread about why we need to stop having lockdowns OP

@Standandwait

@SaskiaRembrandt

Of course it would be stupid for us to overwhelm the NHS now, but it's my understanding the NHS is here to look after us, not the other way around.

This is possibly one the most nonsensical statements I've ever read. Seriously, you typed that, read it back and thought, yip, that's the opinion I want to express?!

with bells on

@GodOfPhwoar

Perhaps we should allow people to disregard lockdown on the proviso that they sign a disclaimer that they’re happy to not receive treatment for any covid related illness. 🤷‍♀️

Or any type of illness.

I don’t think it’s even about just protecting the NHS - that’s the simpler way of presenting it - it’s about our whole infrastructure. If Covid had been free to run wild, it would have affected lorry drivers, supermarket staff, waste disposal operatives, the people who make sure you have running water, electricity, etc. People worry about schools not being able to run properly due to staff shortages, what about all the other people that keep the country functioning. It’s not really about people dying, it’s about huge numbers being ill at the same time. It might not have happened, but could we take a chance .....?

I’d like to thank you OP for starting this thread. Just occasionally I let the constant stream of anti lockdown stuff my Brother persists in sending despite asking him not to, start to cause a few doubts.

However this thread has totally banished these small doubts and have reaffirmed the severe gravity of the situation and reinforced quite clearly why we are doing what we are doing, so thank you for helping me clarify my thoughts. DH has just read it too and feels the same so that’s 2 of us you have helped convince lockdown is necessary and it it’s only just past 8am. Keep up the good work.