Government or individuals? Who is to blame?

[Plussizejumpsuit]

Seems from real life conversions, stuff I'm seeing on social media and reading /hearing in the media, there's a devide between where blame lies for covid. I don't mean where it originated.

But why it is how it is in the UK now. Many people seem to have run with the narrative it is about individual action. People being selfish, taking risks and causing spread.

The other way of thinking about it is the government initially locked down way too late, track and trace was shit, people couldn't get tests, loads of restrictions were too late etc etc. I'm sure most people are familiar with the criticism.

Personally I think covid is yet another example of blame shifting onto individuals. Other examples where this is a conscious comms and policy route by government is over immigration, austerity and the welfare system to name a few.

Seeing how quickly people have taken this on regarding covid and run with it in a way is shocking but given how society is about the issues I mention, not surprising.

I'm not perfect of course I get annoyed when people can't wear their masks over their nose! But do I think the fault lies in individual action? No.

So am I alone in how I feel over this? Do people really blame individuals or are they just getting frustrated as everything is shit right now?

they may have changed many times, the rules.
But, at every single stage, they were clear to me. And everyone I know, my mum, my friends. None of us were confused

Not to me, bubbles, masks, schools, driving to test eye sight, childcare, WFH, don't WFH....
rule of 6... inside outside family or friends...
Exercise for 1hr, unlimited or once a day/

Far too many exceptions, even in our lockdowns.

Oh yes. Boris, and the Xmas debacle WAS his fault. Indecision. Leaving till the last minute before making a decision. He's always too late.

And on Jan 4th, saying no school. Leaving some mums less than 24 hours to sort childcare. Not a problem to me because I have older teenagers but I thought it was disgusting. The last minute . Com decision.

Plus the furlough. Supposed to finish end October. On the Sunday before the new scheme was supposed to start on 1st November, it changed, back to a more old furlough scheme like system. Too late notice. Not fair on people who do payroll.

is it Boris's fault that once he made the rules, everyone went to the pub for 'one last pint' on that Friday night? No. It's the publics fault

Yes because he allowed it, it was lawful

What about those mass crowds at the beach we saw in the middle of summer. Was that the governments fault. No. It was the individuals. They each made the decision to go. Did you? No. Me neither

again, he allowed it BUT in this case, outdoor transmission is almost zero, so it didn't lead to more infection.

He introduced a Eat out to help out scheme, that has shown to have increased infection.
He encouraged us all along with his optimistic time scales on beating the virus... told us all we could have 5 days of xmas, people made expensive plans, then he cancelled them with a days notice.... the extraordinary deaths and an overwhelmed NHS is the direct result of his stupidity.

Because 80 thousand plus people have died
Many more will have life changing long covid
Millions of people have lost income
Millions of people also have terrible mental health

Your post covers both issues (death v social) and highlights the exact tightrope the government are trying to walk though.

Saving lives v saving the economy/people’s business and their mental health. Some people will say too slow one way others will say to slow the other. It’s a no win.

The blame for me needs to go right back to where the virus started but no country is going to take that on so people will take the much easier option of blaming government and each other.

The media also deserve to be pulled over the coals for their part in all this. They have been stoking division for the last twelve months (events in the US last week were a perfect example of what happens when you reach boiling point).

Both. Our local pubs and bars in city centres were overwhelmed with people having ‘one last drink’. Stupid idiots.

People have constantly kept to what they know best

Still see friends (for MH issues of course if they are challenged)

Have birthday parties because we’ll just because....

Go couple and family shopping to keep everyone’s spirits up. Doesn’t matter others have to queue because they are a group of 5. Are they so thick that they don’t realise that 5 people then have to wait longer

Clog up pretty High Streets which have nice coffee shops by arranging to meet friends outside - fancy seeing you here.... and then hanging around having a good chat

Allowing their kids to still meet up - MH issues again.

Going on holiday and then not self isolating. I do blame the government for not being stricter on this. No checking of forms at airports, no checking people are where they should be. Word got round about this one.

I don't think that individuals' in the UK are any worse at compliance than those elsewhere in the world. In fact if you look at the UK's attitude towards vaccination it compares favourably to a lot of the world. The fault largely lies with mixed messaging and reactive rather than proactive policy making.
www.ft.com/content/c576e15f-e5b1-4369-a5f0-073b4466036f

Both.

The blame for late decisions and the indecisiveness is 100% governments fault.

Not responding to sage and numbers getting out of control is the governments fault.

However there is a collective social responsibility to follow the rules and some people don't. And they are responsible for the spread from their actions.

All those who had NYE parties would have caused an increase as we know how rife this virus is.

All those who think an essential shop is a family trip to b and M are also part of the problem.

All those sending children to school because they can and it's easier rather because they have no other option are also part of the problem.

All those not wearing masks are also part of the problem.

So whilst the decisions and necessary speed is action is totally the governments responsibility they cannot be blamed for the selfish idiots who don't abide whilst the rest of us have to abide for longer.

I think this article says it perfectly

[https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/rule-breaking-covid_uk_60003d6ac5b6c77d85ed3b37/]

Sorry, clicky link! m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/rule-breaking-covid_uk_60003d6ac5b6c77d85ed3b37/

@XenoBitch

The virus is to blame. The government can makes laws, and we can take some personal responsibility... but ultimately we are fighting against nature.

This. Any arguments about who to blame are futile. It is a virus, man is not bigger and cleverer, we can mitigate the effects but ultimately we are simply trying to hold back a gushing river with a few sticks and a bit of mud.

I don’t understand world travel at the moment.

I haven’t been on a plane since all this started, and neither has anyone I know. No holidays, no visiting family (and fwiw the only family I have is abroad).

All these people travelling around - I can’t believe they are all in key jobs eg vital scientists.

When people were interviewed at Buenos Aires airport the other day there was a woman who had been visiting family and a bloke who was intending to visit his girlfriend in Bristol.

That’s an interesting article TheRacoon both dh and I have repeatedly said don’t they state the facts and advice clearly. For example ; wash your hands every time to go out and touch something (carry hand initiate) wear a mask covering your nose and mouth. Do not touch your mask without first disinfecting your hands. Wash your mask daily (or whenever) etc etc
Instead we get these ridiculous graphs showing what may, or may not happen. What is the point of that to the majority of people? Seriously? It means nothing. They need to show what happens if you cone into contact with an infected person, like they did in the beginning where they showed an infected person sneezing on someone and how far the virus could travel. Then what happens when you then go into your house and speak /cough on your mum/dad/wife etc and so on.
Make it relevant and simple in quick fire bursts people understand.
I stop listening to Boris ad I think he is a dreadful speaker. Talks waffle and nonsense so in that respect yes I believe the government are at fault. I also don’t like all these random questions from he press and members of the public which incident loveyouu Boris does not answer.
That should have been replaced with the pictographs showing a person and who the virus spreads.
I also agree about employers being to blame, however this government does not give workers rights. The number of employers who insist their staff do not wfh and must go into the work environment is not helping. We had to fight for screens at work. At first we were told no, they don’t work. We were also told customers would not be told to wear masks and that we had to see customers from areas in lockdown and just rely on them being honest!!

Both.
Round here mask compliance and distancing is poor.
Every single customer in my local Londis (10) who went in over a period of 5 minutes, did not enter with a mask.
I was outside in my car.

@XenoBitch

The virus is to blame. The government can makes laws, and we can take some personal responsibility... but ultimately we are fighting against nature.

Australia seem to be doing ok.

For the most part our cultural and societal norms are just not suited to the measures needed to contain the virus in a sustained way. This is reflected in our government’s reluctance to take away freedom of choice and our reluctance to give it up.

But they have probably been too reluctant to use their ability to control events and behaviour. Legislation does have a more profound impact than government advice. Particularly in reaching all parts of society. Public health advice tends to be heard by the well off and educated but rejected by the deprived. Telling rather than asking in a state of emergency would have been a better way to do.

However I’m confident we will come out of the pandemic with our freedoms and rights intact but some countries won’t.

Onlinedilema I agree on repeating advice on what to do.

Of course it's not 100% either side but the government has fallen way below competent governance.

Specifically things like:
Having an inadequate stockpile of PPE pre-crisis as they were meant to (much of it was out of date and had to be binned).
Discharging hospital patients into care homes without testing them for covid.
Not sacking Dominic Cummings.
Eat out to help out.
Christmas relaxation of rules.
Not requesting a delay on brexit.
Sending kids back to school for one day.
Being way too slow to act, generally.
Not providing safeguards like quarantine pay that would increase self isolation compliance.
Handing out contracts to their mates/neighbours/family members like sweeties.
Awful communication all the way through.

The cabinet was chosen on the basis of brexit loyalty, not competence. Our death rate is the result.