Government or individuals? Who is to blame?

[Plussizejumpsuit]

Seems from real life conversions, stuff I'm seeing on social media and reading /hearing in the media, there's a devide between where blame lies for covid. I don't mean where it originated.

But why it is how it is in the UK now. Many people seem to have run with the narrative it is about individual action. People being selfish, taking risks and causing spread.

The other way of thinking about it is the government initially locked down way too late, track and trace was shit, people couldn't get tests, loads of restrictions were too late etc etc. I'm sure most people are familiar with the criticism.

Personally I think covid is yet another example of blame shifting onto individuals. Other examples where this is a conscious comms and policy route by government is over immigration, austerity and the welfare system to name a few.

Seeing how quickly people have taken this on regarding covid and run with it in a way is shocking but given how society is about the issues I mention, not surprising.

I'm not perfect of course I get annoyed when people can't wear their masks over their nose! But do I think the fault lies in individual action? No.

So am I alone in how I feel over this? Do people really blame individuals or are they just getting frustrated as everything is shit right now?

The government are totally to blame for the woefully inadequate mitigation measures we have in schools and for making decisions too late. It was ridiculous sending primary schools back as normal for one day before lockdown. I am also disgusted that school staff are actively discouraged (which often translates in schools to not allowed) from wearing masks in the classrooms because of the DfE guidance. The way the NHS, education, care and childcare sectors have been treated is appalling and is totally down to the government.

We need clearer messages and firm leadership to steer us through this pandemic.

The only positive I believe the government has made is the speed of the vaccination programme which is currently of a much faster rollout compared to many other countries.

@Butterflyfluff

People wouldn't break the rules if the government had acted swiftly and firmly

It’s actually quite worrying that people genuinely believe that

I find it worry that people don't think this.

People have lockdown fatigue. They could maybe afford to not work for a bit but 10 months on people are financially struggling.
So I totally agree that if they had locked down earlier and properly as well as opening up mores slowly, people would be way less exhausted and therefor more likely to stick to the rules.

Where as now we're at a stage where people think I did lockdown. I stock to the rules and what for.

Those who think the govt is 100% to blame.... do you think the govt is to blame in every country that is riven with covid? France? Belgium? Italy? Just to name European examples.

Things I blame the government for:

Lack of decisive implementation of restrictive strategies.
Deliberately ignoring the advice from medics and scientists they’ve actively put in positions to advise them on things they know nothing about
Allowing their members to openly treat the public with contempt for questioning their mistakes

Things I’m tired of seeing from the general public:

Wilful ignorance.

Personal responsibility only gets us so far. I can’t set up an effective track and trace service, wave school fines for non-attendance should people choose to keep their dc at home, set up international travel restrictions, access tests and laboratories, compensate companies and employers to stay shut...

@Butterflyfluff

People wouldn't break the rules if the government had acted swiftly and firmly

It’s actually quite worrying that people genuinely believe that

I know. As if everyone who has broken th rules or guidance wouldn’t have done so anyway regardless

I think that in a multicultural society, with people going to and returning from places all of the time, it would always have been very difficult to keep Covid out of the UK.

We also have so many people living here...we are far more populated than other island countries like New Zealand and this also makes controlling spread of the virus a challenge.

Most of the world is dealing with this virus and are wracking up deaths. Granted our numbers are pretty bad, but again I think the type of society we live in and how crowded together our homes are, is a big factor.

Then there’s issues like closing schools. In parts of the world, closing schools wasn’t questioned like it is here. Shorter, complete, closures. Everyone on board. No vulnerable children in. Our society won’t accept such measures.

So I don’t attribute blame, other than to the fact we’re in a pandemic and I comfort myself with the fact that everyone is in the same boat. I don’t think it helps to always try and blame someone.

I know what you mean, OP, but I think both are to blame. The more both government and individuals to take responsible action the better it will be for everyone.

Government 100% to blame. Or more correctly, Mr Johnson as the controlling mind of the government, who appointed the useless ministers, leaving out capable Tories, and who ignored scientific advice for too long.

Dominic Cummings being sacked would have ensured more compliance, earlier timing of restrictions would have led to shorter periods of them overall (and shorter school closure periods), and proper quarantine at the border would have again reduced numbers travelling abroad.

@peak2021 totally understand where you are coming from, but I don't think it's as simple as that. My disgust with BJ and his government's policies does not prevent me as an individual from looking beyond the politics and still following the rules. Absolutely hold the governement to account (& for more than just their response to covid), but people (especially the likes of DC) also need to take personal responsibility for their actions.

It is 100% to be blamed on the virus.
Those breaching the rules or finding ways around them are not helping, and they should be fined. But I think they are a minority.
The goverment seems to have lost any control of it, by changing from one day to another, delays, and so on. So, normally, people are not happy about this. It does not instigate any confidence, as leading to everyone questioning and micro-analysing each step of the way.
What I wish they ban for good is international travel. If you are not travelling to reunite with family, transport goods, or essential work abroad, then no travelling!

The two are not mutually exclusive.

Has the government's handling of pandemic been criminally negligent? Yes, undoubtedly. If you were to write a book on what not to do during a pandemic then baring perhaps the vaccine then you only need look at the UK.

Equally tough, are there a lot of selfish and or moronic people out there who don't think the rules apply to them? Of course, only yesterday we sent a child home from school with symptoms. Mum later revealed very casually that she herself had been coughing for the last 2 weeks but her employer (a supermarket) had told her she didn't need a test so apparently that was fine then......

What I wish they ban for good is international travel. If you are not travelling to reunite with family, transport goods, or essential work abroad, then no travelling!

Good luck with trying to persuade all the countries reliant on the tourist industry to commit financial suicide, as that is what you're suggesting. No one would ever agree to that. The foreign travel genie is long out of the bottle and can't be put back in.

The government's mismanagement and mixed messages, u turns and delays are to blame for the levels of positive cases and deaths.

The majority of people in this country are compliant.

It’s a virus. It has one aim and that is to infect people. It is no ones fault

Both. There have been failures from the Government and failures to comply from individuals.

Both.

I think the way people are desperate to blame is terrifying.

DH was hospitalised with Covid just before Christmas. I brought it home. I had been incredibly careful, followed all the rules and some. I still had to live with the fact that he was in hospital and it was all my fault. If only I'd done "better" he would have been OK. Plus a definite assumption from others that we must have been reckless.

There must be 1000s of people who will never fully recover from the guilt of having "killed" loved ones. Over dramatic? Of course, but that's what we've been told repeatedly that we'll be doing if we pass it on.

@Redbrickwall

It’s a virus. It has one aim and that is to infect people. It is no ones fault

I mean this is true. But thenim obviously talking about the actions we take to stop it doing that. I also clearly said in my op, who is at fault for where we are now in the UK.

So I'm not sure trotting out trite stuff like thos really adds much. But yes very clever for point out this us in fact what viruses do.

@SunshineandShudders
Sorry you felt like this. How's your husband doing?

I agree with you regarding people being desperate to blame.

But really this has been our politics for the last 20 years so....

[quote Plussizejumpsuit]@SunshineandShudders
Sorry you felt like this. How's your husband doing?

I agree with you regarding people being desperate to blame.

But really this has been our politics for the last 20 years so....[/quote]
He's back in hospital for something else, not a good time at all.

But almost everyone on this thread wants to blame "people" as well as government and we hear daily rants about how someone was to blame for so and so's illness or young people will be killing their GPs. Imagine if one of our DSs had been the unfortunate one and "killed" their father, how do you recover from that?

I completely disagree that the Gov is 100% to blame.

They've been slow and frightened to act.

But their rules were clear. I got the rules, nothing was unclear. I followed them. The fact others haven't is their fault.

Both.

It’s a virus, it’s doing what viruses do. Unless we all locked ourselves away until it died out (impossible, certain things in the economy still have to carry on) it will continue to run its course.

Stopping all travel would’ve been impossible - we have a completely different infrastructure to NZ/Oz etc. Back in March at the time we would’ve had to stop all travel there were very, very few cases and fewer deaths. People would’ve been in uproar if their holidays had been cancelled because of a “mild flu” which had killed a few hundred. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

It was always going to get really bad in winter. The main spread has been in hospitals and care homes. I believe it will now be largely spreading mainly in the sectors that are still open for business, but what can the government do at this point? Stop all deliveries/food manufacture/emergency services? We still need lots of businesses to continue to function.

I agree there is more the government could do and more individuals could do (i.e. those who are still meeting up in homes) but first and foremost trying to control a virus is like trying to put a lid on an overflowing well (or something!)

@Oblomov20

Interesting you think the rules were clear, when they changed 64 times since March.

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/12/england-covid-lockdown-rules-have-changed-64-times-says-barrister

@Oblomov20

I completely disagree that the Gov is 100% to blame.

They've been slow and frightened to act.

But their rules were clear. I got the rules, nothing was unclear. I followed them. The fact others haven't is their fault.

A virus cannot spread itself, people spread it but, whatever this government do, people will blame them.

They are blamed for locking down too late and costing lives but, if they had locked down sooner they'd have been criticised for destroying more businesses.

I have friends who own businesses who think the restrictions are too harsh and friends who work in health who think they are not harsh enough. Teacher friends who think schools should shut because of the risks of being open and teacher friends who think schools must remain open because of the detriment to children of closing. Guess what? They all blame the government

Meanwhile there are still plenty of people not following rules and the knobheads who seem to take pride in not wearing masks, etc who just make things worse.