Vaccinations and nepotism

[Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]

Obviously most of us want the vaccination and an end to this nightmare.
But I am aware of several people that have jumped the queue.
1st family Son works in GP surgery in non patient admin role 44 slight asthma never shielded worked throughout. Got vaccine due to leftovers. Great in a way as vaccines should never be wasted. Then got his Mum and stepdad a vaccine (late 60's no health conditions) a vaccine also. Yes they are older but live 32 miles from the surgery so not their surgery and drove a considerable distance. Was told to be there by 4pm in the am of that day.
I thought surely local people who use that surgery should be prioritised especially health care or other frontline workers?
Ok I thought just a one off.
Then one of my DH friend aged 39 again works in surgery occasionally covers reception through a glass booth/ appointment only got the vaccine too. Her partner again about 12 miles but a different county away aged 41 works from home got vaccinated a week later.
They were foolish enough to put on fb (now taken down) as some people were understandably a bit pissed off with this. Comments such as who you know, driving long way not in spirit of lockdown to the outraged as many elderly/ frail/ frontline still patiently in queue.
I am not judging as those that want it will get it eventually, and no vaccine should be wasted, I am just wondering if this is quite common to others too?
It does seem divisive?

@knittingaddict

Watermelon999 Our surgery has been excellent all through this. They sent out a text a week ago saying that they can only deal with urgent stuff at the moment due to staff being redirected to vaccine roll out and isolating staff. They also say that prescriptions will take longer to process. Far enough in the circumstances.

They sent out a text 2 weeks ago addressing the abuse they have received from patients. I feel very sorry for them.

Interesting about the prescriptions. Before the pandemic we had to wait 3 days for a prescription, now we are getting within 24 hrs, I collected DHs today and the hold up was with the pharmacy. I phoned them yesterday as I could see the prescription was sent on Thursday and was told they were still waiting for one of his painkillers. Very unusual to wait that long, normally if they are out of an item they get it the next morning so now I'm a bit concerned about possible medication shortages. Hope it is just a blip.

I can't get het up about this tbh. Better than chucking them in the bin.

@SchnitzelVonCrummsTum

For those asserting that the surgery gets 'paid' for the jabs, that's only partly correct.

They do indeed receive money.

The money is not nearly enough to cover costs for staff, renting premises, admin time.

The GPs are doing this at a loss because this is the right thing to do for the country, whilst trying to keep all their other services going. It's bloody hard work.

The chemists etc. offering jabs will be doing so for lower risk, 'walk in' patients and therefore have more chance of breaking even or actually making money from the payment. The more expensive situations e.g. care homes - where £10 per jab does not cover the extra costs by some margin! - will be left to GPs to do as no private provider would be inclined to touch them as money can't be made.

My aunt is in a care home and their private GP did all the vaccinations, staff and residents. Not sure how he was paid, not my business, but he does a regular surgery at the home every week but I think it has been mainly online since March.

@ReallySpicyCurry

I can't get het up about this tbh. Better than chucking them in the bin.

I don't think anyone wants them thrown in the bin but lots of people would like them going to the over 80s or frontline staff,. Peter Andre and his wife were on TV this morning, apparently she is a doctor in a hospital and hasn't had her jab yet. I'd like to see people like her getting priority because one of us might need her (not me I don't live anywhere near them.)

I'm not buying into this "WHO SHALL WE RESENT TODAY?!" narrative.

I am worried that vulnerable people who got the jab will behave recklessly when the virus is still widely circulating -- then a small % will get sick in spite of having jab. Not good.

I have cousins in USA who got jab (occupational) & elderly relatives (first come first served system). Of course there's going to be uneven rollout. Israel is fastest in world because they weren't too fussy.

@ancientgran yes, that's fair enough- but isn't that down to how the vaccines are being rolled out in different areas? Who is responsible for that, I'm not sure?

I'm in NI and so far I think nearly all the care homes and most of the frontline NHS have been done already, easier because we're such a small country, but I understand there's quite some discrepancy in the roll out in areas in England. I think, though, if two different areas are being done and there's not enough in Area A and too many in Area B, it still makes sense to jab whoever they can get their hands on in Area B rather than shipping the leftover vaccines miles away, especially as they may not keep. And I suppose it's only human nature that clinic staff etc are going to think of their cousin Shirley who is 48 and has high blood pressure and asthma and who could really do with the vaccine, and they're going to give her a call.

But yes, ideally it would be as you say - how come there is such a difference in area?

@ReallySpicyCurry I had heard NI had done really well with the care homes which got off to a slow start in England. I don't think this is necessarily an area A and area B issue. I'm thinking of issues like this www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/birmingham-mp-beat-vaccine-wait-19534128

and this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-55403235#:~:text=A%20row%20has%20broken%20out,the%20vaccine%2C%20the%20trust%20added.

Sir Simon Stevens, head of the NHS, has said reserve lists of priority groups should be used to ensure vaccine isn't wasted and goes to the priority groups.

I'm biased, son is a nurse, nursing covid patients, hasn't had the vaccine and this month has had covid. Missing 10 days at work, going back not well enough for overtime, which he'd been doing lots of, so not great for him, his hospital or the local community. So I want frontline NHS and carers to get the vaccine, as we go down the priority list I think there will be more of an argument for flexibility but with many over 80s and frontline staff waiting for the vaccine I would like them to get it.

Also I work in a care home, not frontline, and my colleagues and residents haven't got a date for their vaccinations yet. I can tell you if they phoned us and offered us spare vaccine we'd get people there, obviously not everyone on shift could go but we'd go down to minimum numbers and call off shift staff.

I still don't want vaccine thrown away so if all else fails that is what should happen, I just think it should be better thought out. If Slough can get all their care homes done why are other areas 50%?

When you have your first jab you are given an appointment for your second one, regardless of how you came by the first one. It’s got to be like that so they can fulfil the 12 week interval.

But this relies on a system that ensures that there is enough of the relevant vaccine to give second doses, which I'm not confident that we have. Who decides who to prioritise for a second dose if we start to run out of the Pfizer vaccine? Is it just given to people in appointment order?

I should have qualified my comments by saying that’s the current situation. Like you I’m wondering what will happen when we start getting into the 12 week interval - presumably they ought to give priority to second doses over first doses, but it could be a logistical nightmare if there are supply issues and could also slow down the rollout.

@ancientgran having read those articles, I agree that seems to be taking the piss, frankly. Convenient that executives and MPs are the ones finding themselves in the queues for the remainder of the vaccines. I also see that one hospital had 300 left over - if that's the numbers we're talking about then frankly that's appalling that they're being given to the higher-ups instead of front line workers.

I think one or two spare vaccines at the village clinic is one thing, but I had no idea that the amount of reallocated vaccines was this high.

It does sound like a combination of poor planning, and those with a certain amount of power to their elbow taking advantage.

In your shoes I'd be angry too. I really hope you and your son get your vaccinations soon.

Thanks ReallySpicyCurry, thank you. Those articles are quite shocking aren't they and you might not be familiar with the QE in Birmingham, it is huge and I can't believe they couldn't find better candidates.

I was reading an article on the BBC and do you know one of the highest risk groups in hospitals? The cleaners on covid wards, they are getting more infections than doctors and nurses on the wards. I hope someone is prioritising them.

My son is feeling alot better, spoke to him today and he sounds back to normal which is such a relief and I am truly grateful. I will be so glad when I can see him, I've seen him for 2 days since last March.

I'm not one bit suprised the cleaners are getting it badly. They're always the last to be thought of, but you'd soon notice if they all stopped showing up.

I can't imagine how disappointing it all is, especially when you haven't been able to see your son properly for so long. Really glad he's feeling better.

It's very hard and specific sort of situation when you're all working in equally risky jobs. In my immediate family we've a nurse on covid wards, a care home worker, and school staff. Even when things were a little better back in September, we felt pretty isolated because people on furlough or in more Covid safe jobs don't tend to want to hang out too much with the Typhoid Marys. I think it's been very hard on my DH, he has had to be tested every week and has had to stay away from his entire family, who have been off work and able to bubble together the whole way through. Ir really does feel like there hasn't been much of a break for us since March, so I do get it.

I'll look forward to seeing you post when you've got the big jab in the arm- hope you update us when you do

@MrsFezziwig

When you have your first jab you are given an appointment for your second one, regardless of how you came by the first one. It’s got to be like that so they can fulfil the 12 week interval.

But this relies on a system that ensures that there is enough of the relevant vaccine to give second doses, which I'm not confident that we have. Who decides who to prioritise for a second dose if we start to run out of the Pfizer vaccine? Is it just given to people in appointment order?

I should have qualified my comments by saying that’s the current situation. Like you I’m wondering what will happen when we start getting into the 12 week interval - presumably they ought to give priority to second doses over first doses, but it could be a logistical nightmare if there are supply issues and could also slow down the rollout.

If vaccines are running low, I hope that they also find a way to prioritise giving second doses to people who were in the priority list, rather than those who got their first dose because it was going spare.

Mrex.... if you are one of the surgeries with the facilities to host the hub you are getting paid that (fair enough - its a bloody nightmare to run) If you are one of the surgeries who's patients GO to that hub you are not getting paid that. We are not.
Although it is still our surgerys reception staff having to do the bookings and we are supplying vaccinators... this work is being done late into the evening and at weekends. We are vaccinating late into the evenings and at weekends .. After and in addition to our normal work. We are all getting paid the same flat vaccinator rate for this (drs, nurses, paramedics ) which is as it should be but doesn't cover costs.. we have no access to the AZ vaccine to do housebound and care homes as that is being done centrally so we cannot do our own.

@MrsFezziwig

When you have your first jab you are given an appointment for your second one, regardless of how you came by the first one. It’s got to be like that so they can fulfil the 12 week interval.

But this relies on a system that ensures that there is enough of the relevant vaccine to give second doses, which I'm not confident that we have. Who decides who to prioritise for a second dose if we start to run out of the Pfizer vaccine? Is it just given to people in appointment order?

I should have qualified my comments by saying that’s the current situation. Like you I’m wondering what will happen when we start getting into the 12 week interval - presumably they ought to give priority to second doses over first doses, but it could be a logistical nightmare if there are supply issues and could also slow down the rollout.

Seems that the interval time between vaccines is greatly varying too.....it’s a 3 week wait at my NHS trust ( NW ) .....but just took my daughter for hers tonight ( Works in a high street optician) and she has an 8 week interval between vaccines and we both getting Pfizer.

I'm CEV and live about 500m from my doctors. Yes if they rang me I would go and be happy. On the other hand people getting it before me doesn't bother me as I'm shielding, and will still have to shield after the vaccine so... little change!
More people they get done, the better, no matter who it is

@ReallySpicyCurry

I'm not one bit suprised the cleaners are getting it badly. They're always the last to be thought of, but you'd soon notice if they all stopped showing up.

I can't imagine how disappointing it all is, especially when you haven't been able to see your son properly for so long. Really glad he's feeling better.

It's very hard and specific sort of situation when you're all working in equally risky jobs. In my immediate family we've a nurse on covid wards, a care home worker, and school staff. Even when things were a little better back in September, we felt pretty isolated because people on furlough or in more Covid safe jobs don't tend to want to hang out too much with the Typhoid Marys. I think it's been very hard on my DH, he has had to be tested every week and has had to stay away from his entire family, who have been off work and able to bubble together the whole way through. Ir really does feel like there hasn't been much of a break for us since March, so I do get it.

I'll look forward to seeing you post when you've got the big jab in the arm- hope you update us when you do

It is hard isn't it, the "We're all in it together" doesn't always ring true does it. At the moment I'm looking out the window at a miserable wet day, staying in and isolating today doesn't sound too bad but I hope we will have sunny days ahead in more ways than one.

I will be more excited when son gets it than when I get it but I will try to contain my excitement and come back.

Good luck to us all.

I see Matt Hancock is threatening to prosecute those letting friends and family jump the queue - quite right too.

@TorringtonDean well I hope this doesn't mean that vaccines end up getting destroyed instead, if the right people can't be found to give them to in the appropriate time frame.

I saw that. I think people were sending a link that enabled them to book it to others who weren't on the priority list

So it wasn't leftovers being used for them.

Ok, well I suppose that is different. But when I hear of people over 80 who have died without being able to get the vaccine and then of NHS workers’ friends and family getting the jab in their 30s....well maybe you can understand? It’s meant to be one national system for all. Private patients can’t jump this queue either so just using it for your chums is immoral. There really shouldn’t be too many leftovers, there should be a list!

No I agree with you. The article I saw was not about leftovers being given out at the end of the day. It was about people who had a link to book the vaccine passing it on to others who had no right to get it

Here www.lancs.live/news/uk-world-news/queue-jumper-fines-morally-reprehensible-19676044

The article I read said that although it is possible to check when someone had used links shared with them fraudulently to jump the queue it puts an extra burden on the nhs to have to make checks before giving it

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9182781/NHS-threatens-legal-action-against-vaccine-centre-staff-offering-jabs-friends-family.html

This is the report I mean. It’s a bit like a black market. Who knows whether people are really family and friends or are paying a bribe to jump the queue?