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Original poster

Vaccinations and nepotism

304 replies

Mintypylonsfryingsurplus · 16/01/2021 12:39

Obviously most of us want the vaccination and an end to this nightmare.
But I am aware of several people that have jumped the queue.
1st family Son works in GP surgery in non patient admin role 44 slight asthma never shielded worked throughout. Got vaccine due to leftovers. Great in a way as vaccines should never be wasted. Then got his Mum and stepdad a vaccine (late 60's no health conditions) a vaccine also. Yes they are older but live 32 miles from the surgery so not their surgery and drove a considerable distance. Was told to be there by 4pm in the am of that day.
I thought surely local people who use that surgery should be prioritised especially health care or other frontline workers?
Ok I thought just a one off.
Then one of my DH friend aged 39 again works in surgery occasionally covers reception through a glass booth/ appointment only got the vaccine too. Her partner again about 12 miles but a different county away aged 41 works from home got vaccinated a week later.
They were foolish enough to put on fb (now taken down) as some people were understandably a bit pissed off with this. Comments such as who you know, driving long way not in spirit of lockdown to the outraged as many elderly/ frail/ frontline still patiently in queue.
I am not judging as those that want it will get it eventually, and no vaccine should be wasted, I am just wondering if this is quite common to others too?
It does seem divisive?

OP posts:
HSHorror · 17/01/2021 01:04

It is a bit ridiculous to claim they cant find the elderly to vaccinate them. (Or any of the rest of us mostly by phone, as we are in lockdown many are at home... And elderly well especially the shielding ones are erm.... At home!

I can see elderly might be harder to get organised or not drive etc but a back up list of ecv younger people etc.

HSHorror · 17/01/2021 01:13

I think the likely conclusion is after the deaths drop and enough are vaxxed the restrictions will drop before all adults are vaxxed in which case everyone not vaxxed will catch it. (Which is why there are apparently so many people trying to cheat the system), the transmission will speed up dramatically unless there have been enough vaxxed to get a level of herd immunity (and depending on transmission after vax),

Especially because we are vaxxing not the groups who are socially going to spread it most and the 'immune dc' from natural immunity catching the virus will be 10% maybe. Plus only care home workers and hcp etc will be vaxxed as parents of primary kids.

BonnieLisbon · 17/01/2021 01:18

I agree. Instead of phoning lower priority family members who live a way away, they should phone higher priority local people

BonnieLisbon · 17/01/2021 01:31

If the family members were told in the morning to get there by 4pm and were able to travel 32 miles then that's enough time for a local higher priority person to be asked to get there.

MamaTookMyEyebrows · 17/01/2021 01:40

I think it’s a happy and rare bit of common sense that they are allowed to give out the spares “off-list” so to speak. The more vaccinated the better.

CatVsChristmasTree · 17/01/2021 01:41

One problem with using spare vaccines is they have to be given to people on the published priority lists, unless a specific prescription is done by a doctor. The legal frameworks (PGD and National Protocol) only cover the priority lists. So you can't just vaccinate anyone.

Kitkat151 · 17/01/2021 01:53

@CatVsChristmasTree

One problem with using spare vaccines is they have to be given to people on the published priority lists, unless a specific prescription is done by a doctor. The legal frameworks (PGD and National Protocol) only cover the priority lists. So you can't just vaccinate anyone.
If you look at the PGD ( page 8 ‘inclusion’ ) .... it states that consideration should be given to waste ....and the prioriTy table should be followed if reasonably practical..... so perfectly within a vaccinators remit to give the leftovers to non priority list patients.
MrsFezziwig · 17/01/2021 01:53

Yes, giving it to others is preferable to 'wasting it', better yet to give it to elderly/vulnerable.

Many of the “proper” elderly (I mean as opposed to the Mumsnet definition of elderly as the over 50s) can’t just up sticks and get to a centre at a moment’s notice.

How hard can it be?

I generally find that people using this phrase think their own jobs are very complicated and everyone else’s very simple.

Skipsurvey · 17/01/2021 01:57

it is not allowed, tempting, but not allowed

CatVsChristmasTree · 17/01/2021 02:02

@Kitkat151 I read that to mean in terms of not following strictly down the priority list, rather than being able to vaccinate those not on it. Perhaps that was my interpretation. I will ask our clinical supervisor in tomorrow's clinic.

babyyodaxmas · 17/01/2021 08:57

If the family members were told in the morning to get there by 4pm and were able to travel 32 miles then that's enough time for a local higher priority person to be asked to get there.

This is a totally false representation. We had an email at 16:15 stating they had 200 doses that needed to be used by 20:00 and anyone able to was to get to the vaccination centre pdq, it is much more likely the call will come at 4,5 or 6pm with a 2 hour window

CuriousaboutSamphire · 17/01/2021 09:25

It just isn't nepotism.

It is using immediate contacts so as not to waste vaccine.

As time goes on they will have to make more general calls, but that will be more complicated... queues of people, some being disappointed, some arguing they should be first in line etc. They are trying their best, trying not to cause wastage or any furore... yet here you are!?!

I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would find this objectionable.

Blueroses99 · 17/01/2021 09:56

This thread has been interesting reading. DH & I declined a vaccine offered by a GP relative, because we were uncomfortable with queue jumping and thought we should wait our turn, and also because we don’t want to take favours from this particular relative as they take advantage of us being in their debt.

Reading this, and knowing it’s not uncommon, I’m slightly regretting the decision. Our DC is CV but under 18, I would not have declined a vaccine for them if it was licensed for children and offered to us.

Watermelon999 · 17/01/2021 10:05

@HSHorror

It is a bit ridiculous to claim they cant find the elderly to vaccinate them. (Or any of the rest of us mostly by phone, as we are in lockdown many are at home... And elderly well especially the shielding ones are erm.... At home!

I can see elderly might be harder to get organised or not drive etc but a back up list of ecv younger people etc.

I think many of the over 70’s or even the over 65’s would be able to drive themselves somewhere at short notice, or would be happy to turn up at the end of the day just in case if they were nearby.
CuriousaboutSamphire · 17/01/2021 12:39

Having seen many local posts thanking our local surgery for home visits I am fairly sure that people can ask for home visits when they are contacted.

It's not like the surgery won't know they are housebound.

Frazzled2207 · 17/01/2021 12:53

@Watermelon999
Absolutely my CEV 76 year old df would be there like a shot

thatgingergirl · 17/01/2021 13:18

I've can't see a problem with this approach. They are avoiding waste - contacting people who can get to the vaccination centre in whatever time span is necessary makes absolute sense. In the great scheme of things, the numbers involved must be tiny.

The staff and volunteers at these clinics and hubs are doing their utmost to get through as many vaccinations as they can and then applying a sensible approach to using any "spare". I don't understand the criticism at all.

HepLaurenceLB · 17/01/2021 13:49

My SIL works as a GP receptionist. She managed to get her husband a vaccine. He is a 40 year old private chef. I do not believe that she could not have found someone more in need within the timeframe.

HSHorror · 17/01/2021 13:58

It's hardly small numbers at all if people on this thread have experienced it is it. it is blatent cheating of a system. A system that also is preventing private sales to prevent erm ... people lower down the. list getting it first.

BonnieLisbon · 17/01/2021 14:14

This is a totally false representation. We had an email at 16:15 stating they had 200 doses that needed to be used by 20:00 and anyone able to was to get to the vaccination centre pdq, it is much more likely the call will come at 4,5 or 6pm with a 2 hour window
Read the op! That is what people are responding to.

Skipsurvey · 17/01/2021 14:31

i work for a hospital Trust, and no way are our relatives able to get the vaccine. It has only just been opened up for all staff, as well as care staff and so i cannot bring my dh along, even if he is in his late 60s

ancientgran · 17/01/2021 14:36

They won't know what they have left until the end though, eg people not showing up (happens more than you think). My guess is, they were told they can come if they like and they MAY get one if there's any left over. Otherwise, they would just tell them to come earlier in the day obviously, to make sure they got. You can't really have elderly people on stand by and expect them to take the chance of coming in then sending them off again with no vaccine.

Surely they would get an idea during the day that no shows were building up, I mean if 10 patients failed to show up between 9 am and 11 am you've got hours to get people in.

I can't see why elderly people can't be offered the chance to be on standby. My husband is a retired police officer, did years in CID. He is almost 75 and he can sit quietly in car for hours without a problem, he's done it so often when doing obs on criminals. Him and his old colleague, 78, would happily sit chatting in a car outside a vaccination hub for the chance to get the vaccination. Old people vary alot so why not give them the choice?

Sir Simon Stevens, head of the NHS, said this morning that there should be reserve lists so spare vaccines go to people in the priority groups and if this wasn't being done everywhere it needed to be.

ancientgran · 17/01/2021 14:43

Yes, giving it to others is preferable to 'wasting it', better yet to give it to elderly/vulnerable. How hard can it be? Or frontline NHS staff, one of mine is a nurse, nursing covid patients and still hasn't had the vaccine. I'd be mightily annoyed if I knew they had spare vaccine in the hospital and called in friends and family when frontline staff still unprotected.

ancientgran · 17/01/2021 14:46

@Mrsmummy90

My husband is a dentist and his vaccine got delayed. He was told that the gps have been giving their young and healthy friends and family the vaccines.

If it's true, it's absolutely abhorrent.

That is really awful and should be investigated. I would imagine dentists are at great risk as they have to be so close to people. I hope he gets it soon.
Kitkat151 · 17/01/2021 14:47

@Skipsurvey

i work for a hospital Trust, and no way are our relatives able to get the vaccine. It has only just been opened up for all staff, as well as care staff and so i cannot bring my dh along, even if he is in his late 60s
As trust staff you would not be able to book a relative in, as you need to book through your trust email/ portal or whatever system is in place....l.however non nhs staff are provided with a link from their employer and many have passed this link on to family...my daughter ( high street opticians) had the choice of 6 different hospital trusts to choose from when she booked via the link
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