Vaccinations and nepotism

[Mintypylonsfryingsurplus]

Obviously most of us want the vaccination and an end to this nightmare.
But I am aware of several people that have jumped the queue.
1st family Son works in GP surgery in non patient admin role 44 slight asthma never shielded worked throughout. Got vaccine due to leftovers. Great in a way as vaccines should never be wasted. Then got his Mum and stepdad a vaccine (late 60's no health conditions) a vaccine also. Yes they are older but live 32 miles from the surgery so not their surgery and drove a considerable distance. Was told to be there by 4pm in the am of that day.
I thought surely local people who use that surgery should be prioritised especially health care or other frontline workers?
Ok I thought just a one off.
Then one of my DH friend aged 39 again works in surgery occasionally covers reception through a glass booth/ appointment only got the vaccine too. Her partner again about 12 miles but a different county away aged 41 works from home got vaccinated a week later.
They were foolish enough to put on fb (now taken down) as some people were understandably a bit pissed off with this. Comments such as who you know, driving long way not in spirit of lockdown to the outraged as many elderly/ frail/ frontline still patiently in queue.
I am not judging as those that want it will get it eventually, and no vaccine should be wasted, I am just wondering if this is quite common to others too?
It does seem divisive?

I emailed my surgery as I am in the top group but not the first tier for vaccination. I said, after surgery staff have been vaccinated, I would be very pleased to get to surgery 5-10 minutes after receiving a text or call to use any spare vaccine. No reply. Perhaps they don't have any spare vaccine.

It’s not made to wait with bottles in the fridge it’s sending the next available batch to an area that needs it more than a less priority group. Some areas are behind because they haven’t had enough supplies not because they are just can’t be bothered put the effort in.

I wonder if these people will be able to get their second dose at the correct time. It could be a logistical nightmare!

I think that there should be a waiting list of high priority people (age and health wise), willing and able to come at short notice for a vaccination if there is one going to waste.

I also have no issue with people who have been at risk on the front line for months, having a benefit in getting their loved ones vaccinated too. I just can’t get excited about it. How do you feel about people who have been at risk on the front line for months seeing other peoples loved ones getting vaccinated before them just because? Is that OK?

@MamaTookMyEyebrows

I absolutely loathe pointless red tape and bureaucracy. Is it true that GP surgeries who have vaccinated all their 80+ patients are being made to wait before starting on the next group, because other surgeries are still working through their 80+ patients? I saw that on Twitter. I hope that’s not true.

I know people in the 75+ group who have had it so I assumed that was because the 80+ group had been done at their surgery.

Is that the fault of some random GP sitting in a surgery who is told at the end of the day “we have 20 doses left - anyone we can call in?” Are you suggesting it’s that GP’s responsibility to ensure that all the HCPs at the hospital ten miles away are vaccinated before she/he can say “can my spouse have it?” What is it you’re proposing?

It hasn't just happened at GP surgeries, it has happened in hospitals.

Apart from that why would a GP suddenly discover he had 20 doses left at the end of the day? Do you think everyone who fails to turn up has an end of day appointment? Don't you think someone in the surgery could think, "Oh it is 1pm and 10 people haven't turned up for their vaccine, I could phone 10 people on our reserve list and get them in before we close." You know like Sir Simon Stevens, head of the NHS has said should be happening?

You know like Sir Simon Stevens, head of the NHS has said should be happening?

Yes, the thing he said today.

They are basically figuring out as they go along, so let's give the hubs and surgeries the chance to actually create and refine processes before complaining?

@MamaTookMyEyebrows

I absolutely loathe pointless red tape and bureaucracy. Is it true that GP surgeries who have vaccinated all their 80+ patients are being made to wait before starting on the next group, because other surgeries are still working through their 80+ patients? I saw that on Twitter. I hope that’s not true.

Definately not happen where I am in north west.....over 75s nearly all done and will be moving onto over 70s shortly

@MamaTookMyEyebrows
I absolutely loathe pointless red tape and bureaucracy. Is it true that GP surgeries who have vaccinated all their 80+ patients are being made to wait before starting on the next group, because other surgeries are still working through their 80+ patients? I saw that on Twitter. I hope that’s not true.
It isn't about waiting around with vaccine supplies, but the limited next vaccine supplies are being sent to other areas who haven't had enough vaccine to do all their priority groups yet, to ensure fairness between regions. Once they get more doses they can vaccinate whoever is next in line. I posted an article earlier in the thread.

It’s great that we have a vaccination programme being rolled out. It’s great that precious vaccines aren’t go to waste. The priority order can’t be equal all over the country, but I can’t get exercised about that. We will all get it in time, but the rate amongst priority groups won’t be in step country wide. Not perfect. But acceptable.

@Mintypylonsfryingsurplus

My point was it isnt wastage. 6 hours notice is not wastage just poor organisation and nepotism. My doctors surgery pre pandemic had a notice on wall 20% of patients failed to turn up for appointments. 3 missed appointments caused you to be asked to leave the surgery. We are in a pandemic so if you factor maybe 50% of potential no shows you could then have a list of local not 20 odd mile away people in priority. These people are on standby if 20 of these people do not show by a certain time this then gies to standbys. The 30 remaining standbys go up the queue and another 20 added underneath. People who do a no show without good reason have to be put in queue again unless vulnerable. So if you dont have a car you use your local place sonits fairer. Not driving miles to jump a queue. There has been months to work this out and sort out lists. Its not rocket science. The fact so many are saying this is ok is actually quite worrying. I hope there is enough vaccines for us all when its our turn but unless its done properly who knows? I hate to think that there are such underhanded practices taking place on top of an already terrible winter.

Are you offering to organise this list for the GP surgery op? And keep adjusting the list through the day and contacting those on standby? Because they definitely don't have time.

It's unfair on doctors and GP receptionists to expect that in addition to actually administering the vaccine and managing other patients needs, they're expected to keep running totals on the vaccines and always use and spares exactly according to the priority list.

I trust their judgement a lot more than I do the government's - the more needles stuck into arms the better. Absolutely lets have a criteria list and generally stick to that, but sometimes compromised have to be made. I'd rather they do what they are doing, rather than work extra hours trying to be ultra fair in who they give the vaccine to.

If lots of morons would stop not showing up for their appointments then there wouldn’t be so many left over. These are simply sensible ways of avoiding wastage.

It's unfair on doctors and GP receptionists to expect that in addition to actually administering the vaccine and managing other patients needs, they're expected to keep running totals on the vaccines and always use and spares exactly according to the priority list.

What people also need to bear in mind is that not all GPs are vaccinating. In a lot of areas a particular surgery is designated as the hub for that area and are doing the vaccinations for patients registered to other surgeries as well as their own. Its not just as simple as "keeping a list" at this stage and they need to be given time to figure out the best way to deal with no shoes and leftover vaccine.

No shows obviously 😄

I also think that many months ago not everyone had made up their minds about having the vaccine or not (well, some still haven't). In my dept people who initially said they wouldn't have it (straight away), were now the first to want to queue up. So making lists many months ago would not be valid. Plus the fact many months ago the priority lists were not clear)

I had mine today. Clinic was empty. Staff asked people to tell others to come.

It’s better than the vaccinations being wasted

It’s a huge task to get this organised then people will be late it won’t run quite as smoothly as it does to add on another list would just be too chaotic and how would you then keep track of that

It’s relying on people to be punctual and responsible unfortunately many people are not

Where I am, health and social care workers are being offered the leftover jabs. Emails and texts get sent around from managers and people jump on it.

Lots of people are saying it’s difficult to organise or staff haven’t got time. But there are so many people who have lost jobs and there are tens of thousands who have volunteered as well. Can’t they help to get this in some order?

[quote MrsFezziwig]**@viques
I do wonder how they are going to organise the second dose for the walk ins though. I hope someone is keeping good records!

When you have your first jab you are given an appointment for your second one, regardless of how you came by the first one. It’s got to be like that so they can fulfil the 12 week interval.[/quote]
That makes sense. So the people who have driven forty miles have just given themselves another 80 mile round trip. Seems fair!!!!

I can 100% guarantee that no family or friends are being given 'spare' doses from our vaccines as we think it is inappropriate... also the '6th' dose in the Pfizer cannot be booked in as its not a guaranteed full dose.. the vials have 5 full doses... it 'may' be possible to get a 6th dose out but it cannot be counted in the appointments offered. Its is currently a bloody logistical nightmare .. it took 11 additional reception hours to book the last batch in at short notice ( as we only know its coming when it arrives). Over and above normal work. No one is paying the surgeries for this... we are needing to staff the surgeries to deliver vaccination over and above normal work when we are struggling to cover even the basics. Amazing how a few reports of people doing something out of the norm is enough to condemn the entirety of those trying to deliver a nightmare service who have quite frankly been thrown to the wolves over this whole bloody thing by the powers that be ..

[quote MrsFezziwig]**@viques
I do wonder how they are going to organise the second dose for the walk ins though. I hope someone is keeping good records!

When you have your first jab you are given an appointment for your second one, regardless of how you came by the first one. It’s got to be like that so they can fulfil the 12 week interval.[/quote]
But this relies on a system that ensures that there is enough of the relevant vaccine to give second doses, which I'm not confident that we have. Who decides who to prioritise for a second dose if we start to run out of the Pfizer vaccine? Is it just given to people in appointment order?

@Didiplanthis I'm sorry that you've been put in this situation. I don't envy you!