Lockdown will claim 560,000 lives. Are lockdown fanatics are killing people.

[Billie18]

Worrying reports coming out indicating that Lockdowns will end up claiming the equivalent of more than 500,000 lives because of the health impact of the 'deep and prolonged recession that they will cause. It has been obvious that restrictive lock down measures will impact on the health of the whole population but concern has been shouted down by those in favor of lockdowns. But will those ignoring the dangers of lockdowns on the entire population be responsible for killing huge numbers of people. Killing far more people than any virus.

'In winter 2017/2018 there were over 50,000 EXCESS deaths. Some due to flu with an ineffective jab.17,000 due to not being able to afford to heat a home.'

Yes and again that is tragic but that was without any restrictions. What is happening currently is off the scale

'don't think anyone at all is in denial about the impact of lockdown. But what do you suggest we do - allow the healthcare system to become overun and take our chances?'

That seems to be the bizarre gist with some that people die anyway, so what's a few tens of thousands more! Were just 'anxious' if we point out the glaringly obvious that if one of our family or friends needs a critical care bed for any reason we'd actually like one to be available.

www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/non-covid-19-nhs-care-during-the-pandemic

This lays out the claim that there is an exaggeration to the problem with missed appointments. It is not an exaggeration

@Sarahandduck18 absolutely agree. It's as if we lived in a nirvana prior to covid.... Food banks, schools providing breakfasts for 1000s of hungry children, families living in b and bs in horrendous conditions, the rising numbers of homeless, chaotic UC. Whole areas left to rot for lack of investment, austerity. I suspect now it's hit those insulated from it for years there's an outcry.....

I really feel for the hospital staff. They will soon be needing to make terrible decisions at this rate...terrible, terrible decisions...and why? Because people are fed up. Because they have better ideas (they think, despite the best scientists in the world working with governments).

Who would you choose to treat and save if you had to make the decision?

The 50 year old with children aged 5, 9 and 14.
Or the childless 28 year old?

The 40 year old dad of 6 and main breadwinner, who is requiring oxygen for Covid .
Or the 15 year old who’s been rushed to hospital following a car accident.

Those are the type of choices doctors will end up having to make. And they are people who are, as capable of ending up traumatised as you or I.

I wouldn’t want to make those choices and that is what we are working to avoid isn’t it?

I could come up with a solution, with the right team behind me.

Oh aye, lol

@hamstersarse I read that private hospitals were doing alot of non covid treatment and investigations on behalf of the NHS. In fact the NHS is currently in dispute with the private sector due to extortionate costs demanded by private hospitals.

[quote BatmanBaby]@tinselearedcow even WHO have advised against lockdowns![/quote]
As a general as a lockdown in Yemen is quite difficult from one in the UK.

I gave birth during 1st lockdown to a preemie and saw first hand the difficult decisions had to make then. They had to remove the ventilators from the NICU to use on covid patients.

Yesterday I was shocked, when I turned up with my now 9 month old to his clinic appointment, to see the children's ward had been adapted into an emergency covid ward. The nurse and Dr we saw yesterday told us how rapid its spreading through both staff and patients.

I'd hate to think how bad it would get for them without any lockdown restrictions in place.

Also hate to think about my vulnerable baby getting covid and having no space for him in an ICU

@amusedtodeath1

Why would anyone die because of lockdown? What nonsense is this? Staying at home does not kill people.

I can’t believe anyone is this ignorant

Mental health is a concern but it works both ways. I know people struggling with mental health due to having covid and the mental health of the NHS staff dealing with it is in crisis.
Another friend suffering because there was no lockdown and she was worried it was spiralling. She is now doing better . It works both ways.

Surely poverty is a political choice. It does kill ,it really does but we are a rich country their is no excuse. Unless you want rich people richer.

Any nhs treatments delay used as a reason for no lockdown are a misnomer too. How can an overwhelmed health service help that. It won't. Are people who are scared to go to hospital going to be more confident to go with ambulances queued outside.

Repeated lockdowns devastating the economy cannot possibly be the best or only way to deal with this. The sainted NHS will collapse with repeated lockdown every bit as much as it will with Covid patients. It’s only that it’ll happen later rather than now.

There should have been better border control, contact tracing and mass testing in place at the start, and perhaps an initial lockdown back in March to get numbers down and try and then keep them down with the other measures.

Kids having to be out of school again because it’s been so badly handled for example is a disgrace.

Lolololol
People will die.
Mainly due to mismanagement of the pandemic. If schools had gone back on a rota and stricter quarantine from all countries. And masks at school like everywhere else
We could have avoided these other 2 peaks.
It is not the fault of lockdowns. But the lockdowns are needed because
Useless gov
Useless selfish mememe population

• Testing should be for all cold symptoms and d&v

You shouldnt be able to quarantine in a house with other residents If you are a contact then your whole household should isolate Masks on kids in shops

'really feel for the hospital staff. They will soon be needing to make terrible decisions at this rate...terrible, terrible decisions...and why? Because people are fed up. Because they have better ideas (they think, despite the best scientists in the world working with governments'

Yes and with critical care massively over capacity and that is with routine surgery cancelled to accommodate the excess patients what do people think should be happening! The utter head in the sand mentality is shocking.

If a patient had respiratory failure pre pandemic and needed CPAP they'd be closely monitored on HDU or ICU. Now there's loads on the brink of deterioration on covid wards.

'read that private hospitals were doing alot of non covid treatment and investigations on behalf of the NHS. In fact the NHS is currently in dispute with the private sector due to extortionate costs demanded by private hospitals.'

They are yes. You'd think in the current crisis private hospitals would do them at cost if there is such a thing. Making money off the back of covid would seem grabby even by private hospital's standards.

@CuntAmongstThePigeons it’s incredibly sad that you know of three people that have killed themselves. But you cannot say that but for lockdown they would not ever have killed themselves. If you have mental health problems that severe then any number of future reasons could have caused them to kill themselves.

@HSHorror

Lolololol People will die. Mainly due to mismanagement of the pandemic. If schools had gone back on a rota and stricter quarantine from all countries. And masks at school like everywhere else We could have avoided these other 2 peaks. It is not the fault of lockdowns. But the lockdowns are needed because Useless gov Useless selfish mememe population

• Testing should be for all cold symptoms and d&v

You shouldnt be able to quarantine in a house with other residents If you are a contact then your whole household should isolate Masks on kids in shops

Yeah I agree. It could have been different.

Whilst fuel poverty may kill some people in a short period (elderly for example) the consequences of poverty are long term- poor diet etc.

Whilst the pandemic will cause a recession and poverty it’s possible that this will be short lived and the “status quo” will resume within a few years. Unemployment for 1-2 years of a family who otherwise were not in poverty is probably not going to affect life expectancy that much. Unemployment in a family who were already in poverty will make it worse but again life expectancy is probably already affected by the pre existing poverty.

I think poverty and it’s affect on life expectancy is complex, multi factorial and the pandemic may actually only end up having a minor effect on it. However if all the people who don’t agree with lockdown work to try to help reduce the systemic causes of poverty and think about our political actions we might be able to improve people’s life outcomes. This will have a much greater impact on deaths than lockdown.

I remember that when 48% of the population tried to point out that Brexit would increase poverty we were told to stop moaning and acting like losers!

If we hadn’t had austerity or Brexit and had acted quickly and decisively on the pandemic then yes, thousands of lives would have been saved and much suffering and poverty averted with a higher quality of life for most people and a fraction less wealth for the billionaires. Society could be much better, of course. But this right wing government got voted in and proceeded to fuck up on pretty much everything, causing a great deal of needless death and suffering. But that still doesn’t mean that lockdown isn’t the least catastrophic of our shitty options in the circumstances that we are actually in.

www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/estimatingtheimpactsofcoronavirusonenglandsmortalityandmorbidity

ONS - 970k lost years of life due to lockdown social distancing measures.

This is more than was estimated to be lost to covid up to March 2021, but fewer than if we had no measures at all.

Obviously the paper is out of date but I don’t think the OP’s figures are outlandish, albeit I don’t know where she’s got it from.

I understand that plenty of people (including me) see lockdown as the lesser or two evils and do understand how awful lockdown is, but I still so so many posts referring to lockdown as inconvenient or about socialising. I think a lot of people are in for a nasty shock when the reality hits.

No wonder we're in so much shit if certain posters on here are involved in advising the government!

When the Coalition introduced austerity measures many were rightly up in arms about the long term consequences of the cuts; that austerity costs lives.

This lockdown is causing and is going to cause effects far worse than austerity measures but most people seem to think it is a cost worth paying.

Yes, because the alternative to austerity was to invest in public services which would have had us in better shape to face a pandemic, incidentally. The alternative to lockdown is the collapse of the health system along with economy and deaths from everything on an unthinkable scale.

@Haffiana

Oh, OP you are so very special, aren't you?

You can see The Truth that no-one else can because they are sheeples duped by The Media! But you know better than them, don't you?

You are a True Believer from the Church of Conspiracy Theories.

Typical ignorant answer. Take your blinkers off and at least think of another response apart from this same old repetitive tosh.

Agree that the tories used the economic meltdown as an opportunity to implement an entirely ideologically motivated austerity. Cut services = small state/ free market competition. There's been considerable research debunking their policies and that the opposite was the better solution ie massive investment in the
infrastructure, particulary in the postindustrial heartlands up north/midlands. Maybe if that had happened, brexit would never have been so easily sold.....

I think the other thing you need to realise, OP, is if we allowed uninterrupted spread of the virus and the health system collapsed (which it would), with that would come other problems. Millions of people infected would mean essential services compromised - weeks to get your heating fixed, weeks to get your broadband service fixed, problems with your water taking weeks to get fixed, food not moving around the country at it's usual speed, supermarkets with empty shelves, then panic buying, then nothing on the shelves....this would all lead to civil unrest, rising crime rates, people feeling unsafe to go out because of the virus but also because there's a gang of youths on every corner and well publicised 'no police 'cos they're all off sick' to help with that. In a short time we would end up with the army on the streets, curfews and who knows what else.

Getting at least 60% of our population (the minimum figure they said we would need for some herd immunity to kick in) through this virus with no intervention whatsoever would be way more damaging than lockdown and a slow but steady vaccine programme. Of course, as many people have said above, it didn't need to be this way but inaction, slow action and general underinvestment in key services for years have all played a part in why we are in lockdown today.

What you are advocating is 'survival of the fittest' in a country with one of the world's biggest economies and supposedly a high standard of care for it's citizens. You might feel a bit differntly when it's your turn to be considered vulnerable to this - or any other - virus or illness. I can guarentee you will see things differently then.

Sorry posted the thread presuming the source was well known. The figure is an estimate by Professor Philip Thomas of Bristol University and was published in the Daily Mail.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8925425/Lockdown-claim-equivalent-560-000-lives-health-impact-recession-cause.html

Of course any figure is an estimate and there are many similar reports with different estimates.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/19/lockdown-may-cost-200k-lives-government-report-shows/

It's bemusing to read comment here from people who believe that lockdowns don't cause any deaths or that people don't die from poverty. It's likely that tens of thousands will die from cancer in whats been referred to as a ticking timebomb. Just google life expectancy and poverty to get an idea of it's deathly associations with poverty.