Oh ffs just shut the borders already

[Circumlocutious]

‘PM concerned by Brazilian variant’

Sure, the mutation may be insignificant. Sure, we might be able to quickly tweak the vaccines so that they still work against it, if it all. Or it might completely fuck everything up and we end up a strain that vaccine-resistant. If not the Brazilian one, then it could be another mutation that emerges somewhere in an intensive factory farm four months from now.

I think the world won’t learn this lesson - that near borderless travel and weak quarantine rules are not sensible in a pandemic - until it’s too late.

I will say it again. The problem isn't borders being open.

The problem is the UK not having a proper testing and quarantine system for returning travellers. If people complied with the self-isolation rules on return, we wouldn't be having these conversations. I can't believe 10 months into a pandemic, no one actually checks if you're staying at home after you come from holiday. No one checks your forms at the airport. No one monitors your isolation. Look at other countries and how strict the system is.

There was a thread the other day about a lady whose grandfather was in hospital because her aunt and uncle didn't quarantine on the way back from a holiday, and gave Covid to this elderly man. He was late 90s if I remember correctly.

People are selfish and believe the rules don't apply to them, so they get off the plane, go shopping and two days later are visiting their 12 different 'support bubbles'. If the government was enforcing the rules and fining those who break them, this would look different. In Germany it's up to €25k for quarantine infringement. Guess how many people dare breaking isolation or not doing the 2 required tests to be released. Close to none.

I’d like to know the genuine reasons people have for travelling abroad at this time. I can think of a few reasons, some I feel are fair enough, others not so much or plain stupid and irresponsible. Anyone have any others to add?:

Accompanied freight (food, medicine, other essential goods) and the train driver or plane pilot and respective crews required to facilitate these essential journeys.

Holidays. If we are not supposed to travel we should not be.
None of this ‘my mental health has suffered’ reasoning for a holiday.
ALL our mental health has suffered due to covid, you can’t outrun it. It’s a world wide pandemic.

Weddings, bar mitzvahs etc and other religious gatherings.
I think it’s irresponsible to travel for this.
Have your ceremony here in a registry office or preferably outside, and have a big gathering later after Covid to celebrate it all. Two days instead of one to wear your wedding dress.

Funerals. This is more tricky.
It must be heartbreaking to know your mum is dying a million miles away and you could go to say goodbye as there are planes, but plenty people here were denied that right when their mum was dying a mile up the road. So I’m not sure where I stand on this one. Perhaps with a negative covid test repeated after five days and then again before returning.

Work
Government business perhaps?
Not sure I can think of many things that you can’t do remotely or someone else on a company already located abroad couldnt do for you with training? But perhaps I’m just thick. Grateful for examples of why your friends or relatives are travelling for work that I haven’t thought of!

There's a lot of essential travel to Dubai.🤷

Work
Government business perhaps?
Not sure I can think of many things that you can’t do remotely or someone else on a company already located abroad couldnt do for you with training?

My DH travels for work. It's for sporting events and it's not something he can do from home.
I know some won't agree with that but tbh those people are not paying our mortgage.

@LadyInParis I totally understand. This is your life, your future and your chance to have a family. Plus you are not doing anything illegal. I hope that all your plans come to fruition.

The negative test requirement for entering the UK is now being delayed till next week - I suppose it gives time to focus on important issues like blaming the public, drinking coffee outside and park benches.

I've been travelling for work. Less than usual, I'd normally average 5-6 flights a month and I've been doing 2 (so one return trip) or less since March.

I'm in performing arts and whilst most of my work has been happening 'at home', we sometimes have to go somewhere else. Bit difficult to play a concert or similar from thousands of miles away. I'm mostly freelance and I work with various companies/individuals in many different countries where live performances were/are still happening. If I say no I won't get paid that particular month, and the company will probably never call me again. They'll go to the next person on the list. I also teach in various countries. Have to see my students in person every now and then. Auditions for contracted jobs are still happening. These are like gold and no more than 3-4 places come up worldwide each year. I'm not going to give up trying to get a contracted position for a few years.

There are many jobs that require frequent travel and can't be done on zoom. We're not talking corporate business here, but sports and arts where getting on 12 flights a month on a busy season was normal. If I don't travel I can't work, therefore I can't pay my rent or food. Someone in the other country can't do it instead of me, because my particular area of work requires 18 years or training minimum. You start around 6-8yo. So good luck training someone in a week.

I've also had to travel to my home country (within Europe thankfully) to renew documents. My passport and ID card both ran out during the first lockdown. I can't renew my passport at the local embassy without a valid ID. I can't renew my ID on foreign soil. So I had to go back to renew ID and then renew passport. Thankfully I have double citizenship but 2nd passport is also expiring soon. I can't travel anywhere except to either of those countries with emergency documents. When I have to be in two different countries next week but one of my passports is at X embassy being processed for a visa, I NEED other travel documents.

So yes, there are many jobs that people perhaps don't even know of, that require constant travel. I don't feel guilty in the least for travelling during these times. But that might be because I live somewhere with very strict rules around testing and quarantine when returning from abroad, and I've been adhering to them all, every single time I've travelled. I've been spot-checked several times and there's no way I'd risk getting a huge fine or infecting others, so I comply religiously with tests and isolations every time I come back.

@PutneyHill

The negative test requirement for entering the UK is now being delayed till next week - I suppose it gives time to focus on important issues like blaming the public, drinking coffee outside and park benches.

Maybe...but I think the delay might as much as anything be down to the time it took HMG to actually decide and then announce what tests were valid...(yes I know, they've only had year )

Grant Shapps made the announcement of a Friday 4 A.M. start several days ago but as far as I can see HMG only listed online the detailed testing criteria either late last night or this morning, potentially < 24 hours before some people were arriving at UK Border..

MaxNormal

Work
Government business perhaps?
Not sure I can think of many things that you can’t do remotely or someone else on a company already located abroad couldnt do for you with training?

My DH travels for work. It's for sporting events and it's not something he can do from home.
I know some won't agree with that but tbh those people are not paying our mortgage

Hear hear!! Agree with you on this! Well said for yourself too

@LadyInParis I totally understand. This is your life, your future and your chance to have a family. Plus you are not doing anything illegal. I hope that all your plans come to fruition.

Thank you so much! Same as you in the sense that none of these many people who are suddenly virus experts are paying your mortgage, neither are they there when my rate of attempted suicide as well as self harm, at one point alone went up- I have mental health disorders and it’s under control now but until recently I had been trying to kill myself more frequently and self harming terribly. Whereas before it would have been once in a blue moon like when my Nan died (luckily fiancé has always stopped it!) Now it’s under control thankfully.

So I now have to contend with - mental health isn’t good enough excuse (if I had died of suicide incidentally; for those virus experts and whatnot, would it have come under the umbrella of corona or what?) having a wedding and children is a luxury not a necessity. Fuck right off!

Having my marriage for security, and children while I can- as I’m getting older as it is, is about as necessary as can be. It’s not a fucking luxury ESPECIALLY in these uncertain times, to need the security of marriage financially and legally. After three years of a relationship. What a total load of bollocks. Children too it’s tantamount to saying I might as well get the womb removed or get myself sterilised because children aren’t important for people to have at the moment? If not now when? I’m getting older so by the time this shit is over I will have less viable eggs if any and I’m having my fucking children. How many saying it isn’t necessary already have marriages and children here? Though those same people are saying funeral they aren’t sure are vital or worth the risk either..

Anyway it’s nice to have a voice of reason on here! Sorry for the rant it’s annoying me terribly! How long will you have to miss your husband for? Is it hard when he’s away or do you enjoy the time on your own?

We follow all the rules to our own expense and terrible detriment, and no one is breaking laws as the borders ARENT CLOSED so get over it and stop thinking you’re all virus experts or political perfectionists and let the government do it’s (admittedly shitty) job and try to live your life. I am!

Well it’s too late to shut the borders now and prevent the Brazilian variant, it’s in the U.K. already. Great.

Wonder who brought it over and why they were over there in the first place.

How long for? Forever?

Clearly this should have been done many months ago. NOBODY needs to go on holiday in the middle of a pandemic. Most business travel is also surely not necessary these days. Should be travel only allowed for absolute necessity, freight of foodstuffs, meds, etc. All travellers to pay for their own tests AND isolation. Other island nations have done well with these measures, but we're already fucked, a bit late to start now if they ever do. Saw in the paper today, people arriving from Brazil, South Africa, to no checks whatsover - fuck knows why - they seemed to be young tourist types. Hope they will remember their jolly when they're still paying for this for the rest of their lives.

@LadyInParis I'm so sorry to hear that you've struggled so much and how much worse it's been for you. You're right, it's not a luxury, it's your life! People forget that some people are way more affected by the restrictions in various ways than others, and that being very black and white is all very well but some are working from home on a good salary with a loving family and others are the opposite - isolated, financially devastated, alone. And it's so unfair for the former to sit in judgement of the latter.

DH is away for three weeks this time, we're relatively used to it but I do have my wobbly-lipped moments too. I do also enjoy a bit of quiet time though although as you can imagine it's tougher at the moment as can't really see friends or anything when he's away.

ginghamstarfish there's more business travel still necessary than you think. Well I suppose it depends how you define necessary, possibly some of it isnt' life or death but it's still people's lives, livelihoods, businesses etc that they are desperately trying not to lose. Covid isn't the only thing in the world.

My friend's BIL has just died overseas and she can't go to support her sister/sister can't come home. How is that in any way humane?

Not all non business travel is a jolly.

My dad (overseas) had a stroke last week. I just have to hope it's a blip not start of sudden decline. I shudder to think of the logistics if he is taken severely ill and I wanted to visit.

All travellers to pay for their own tests AND isolation. Other island nations have done well with these measures

Non-islands too. Germany has done a great job implementing those measures. We pay 60€ per PCR test and it comes back within 24h. That's what I have to do every time I travel to and from work. Not to mention guidelines change every 3 weeks so I then have to rearrange work when the isolation is suddenly shortened/lengthened. That's what the whole country has done since early summer and no one complains.

there's more business travel still necessary than you think
Exactly. No, I'm not traveling to work as an ICU nurse, but if I don't travel to work, I can't pay my rent. My job can't be done from home/my city, therefore I need to travel.

Plus people are still getting sick or bereaved even during this pandemic. Families need to reunite for whatever reasons. Very few people are going on holidays (well, outside the UK at least), but you can't stop all flights.

We are a bloody island - why waste the natural advantage that should give us in keeping a rampant infectious disease out?

This AGAIN?

You're not an island. You have a land border with a foreign country that you can't just "close".

Really sick of this over and over again. If you don't know what shape your country is, or what borders you have, please keep your silly opinions to yourself until you consult a map and some newspapers.

Germany has done a great job implementing those measures... whole country has done since early summer and no one complains.

Except these Germans, of course. And others who protested in Leipzig, Berlin...

.

@lljkk

Northern Ireland.

I just wondered what "close the borders" brigade want to do about about the BRITISH who live in Norn. They aren't freight. They have free movement with RoI which (last I checked) is an international border. Would you want the Norn residents to "prove need" to be able to travel to GB.

Yes.

@lljkk

Germany has done a great job implementing those measures... whole country has done since early summer and no one complains.

Except these Germans, of course. And others who protested in Leipzig, Berlin...

Read my post properly please. I was referring to the measures applying to returning travellers. That article talks about the general day-to-day rules.

I never said all Germans were happy with lockdown measures, of course they aren't. My industry is closed until mid-April. The country has been in lockdown since the end of October. If it wasn't -6 degrees outside, I'd join a protest too

So my question is, if you live alone and come home from abroad having been across there for work for a week say, how do you get your shopping done? There won’t be much in at home as you’ve been away. You now need ten days worth of food.

That’s my main bugbear with this system, apart from nobody knowing if you keep to the isolation rules or not. People doing a shop once they arrive in the uk and spreading germs.

Unless you can order a delivery from Asda in the hope you arrive when you expect to arrive and there are no delays.

It’s no so hard if you have someone at home who does the shopping.

@Elieza I live alone. Before I go away, I stock up my freezer and cupboards. So I do the weekly shop I'll need on arrival, just before I go. For a person living alone, 10 days' worth of food is doable. I don't think I could fit 10 days' worth in my kitchen if I had a family of 6 though.

Supermarket delivery for the day after I arrive. They'll happily do it contactless. Odd takeaway or two. Contactless delivery again. I can ask a friend or neighbour to get me a few essentials if I run out of milk, bread or fresh fruit, and drop them on my doorstep. It's definitely doable.

@MaxNormal

Thank you! Definitely right! And I sympathise- it’s one thing having time to yourself when you can visit friends etc but I imagine much harder atm with lockdown when he is away. Hope he has safe travels