So Gav says schools could stay shut beyond half term.....

[Coldwinterahead1]

I'm guessing after Easter. What does everyone else think?

@Kitcat122 Just ignore comments like that. Most of them are astroturfing from UsForThem. No one with any sense thinks we should just throw open primary schools when infections are still out of control.

"The teachers union advocates on MN misrepresent this in a spectacular fashion."

That is JUST NOT TRUE.

@noblegiraffe

I have read lots of threads on here from teachers suggesting rotas etc to make schools safer.

These were generally threads about secondary where there were, up till the last weeks before Christmas when it went mad, far more covid problems than primary.

Rotas would work at secondary, we don’t have huge numbers of keyworker kids.

Primary could start looking at expanding their spaces and utilising currently furloughed sports groups/forest schools/other people trained to look after children to increase their offer. But that would cost money.

How likely is it that the govt will give any money for this? Otherwise, will it simply be a case of opening primaries exactly as they were before Christmas? I know things were worse in secondaries, but the majority of the primaries near us had year groups isolating and it was really ramping up as we approached the end of term, so much so that I took dd2 out of school a few days early. If they go back after half term, surely the same will happen again?

Nurseries also had significant numbers in the half term before Christmas. We had listings in our local press, and every week it looked something like, for every 100 schools that had a class or year group out, 50 of them were secondaries, 30 primaries, 15 nurseries (private or attached to school) and 5 special schools. Bubbles are popping again all over the place in nursery now as they're fully open.

We need a more sustainable plan than open to all, spread Covid around the school/college/nursery, spread it around the community and end up in a lockdown. It's that simple.

but the majority of the primaries near us had year groups isolating and it was really ramping up as we approached the end of term

I know. Like I said the focus was secondary before as that’s where the real problems had been. I’m at a bit of a loss for primary as things like masks are going to get far more pushback and as you said, the childcare issue is a real problem when you consider rotas. Plus introducing testing is more of an issue - self swabbing is definitely out. (I’m thinking PCR for bubbles when there’s a case, not the mad lateral flow for close contacts plan).

So more creativity will be needed. And money, people and space.

Yes again my small primary aged school, no cases prior to Christmas is full of Covid after one week. Staff and children. It's just not safe at present. I have 4 children at home desperate for school too but we just have to do the best we can with home schooling. If it's not perfect don't worry. Plus just keep our kids exercising, in a routine and as happy as possible. They are very resilient and will bounce back when this is all over.

Yes, Easter earliest probably

I think though there is a difference between what should happen and how and when they can be opened

And what will happen - the media has this week switched from the rhetoric of extra restrictions coming to we are beating this and the r number is dropping - it’s 4 weeks until the review I think it depends on what happens.

@Kitcat122

Yes again my small primary aged school, no cases prior to Christmas is full of Covid after one week. Staff and children. It's just not safe at present. I have 4 children at home desperate for school too but we just have to do the best we can with home schooling. If it's not perfect don't worry. Plus just keep our kids exercising, in a routine and as happy as possible. They are very resilient and will bounce back when this is all over.

This has been my mantra too @Kitcat122 but this week I feel like it's all falling apart - so much so that I have started another thread about it!

@pinkpip100 💐

Haven't caught up with the thread, so apologies if this has already been posted, but this is concerning:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/14/regulator-refuses-to-approve-mass-covid-testing-schools-in-england

So schools have been shut for four weeks (Christmas and two weeks of lockdown) and apparently the R rate is beginning to drop. Funny, that.

It will take a special kind of stupid to open the schools in exactly the same way as they opened in September and to expect it to go well. On that basis, I expect they will open after February half-term and be closed again for the summer term.

@BustopherPonsonbyJones

So schools have been shut for four weeks (Christmas and two weeks of lockdown) and apparently the R rate is beginning to drop. Funny, that.

It will take a special kind of stupid to open the schools in exactly the same way as they opened in September and to expect it to go well. On that basis, I expect they will open after February half-term and be closed again for the summer term.

it wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if that’s what ended up happening.

this week i feel like it's all falling apart

Yep totally relating to this! Im shocked at how quickly I have felt its falling apart and I doubt I'm alone in thinking how the hell can we get through this. When lockdown was announced i was quite positive, I thought we've come through it once we can do it again, yet less than 2 weeks in I feel ready to crumble. It seems so much harder this time.

@3littlewords

this week i feel like it's all falling apart

Yep totally relating to this! Im shocked at how quickly I have felt its falling apart and I doubt I'm alone in thinking how the hell can we get through this. When lockdown was announced i was quite positive, I thought we've come through it once we can do it again, yet less than 2 weeks in I feel ready to crumble. It seems so much harder this time.

It definitely feels much harder - I guess for the kids they have been through it all before and novelty has truly worn off. That said, the last thing I want is for schools to open too soon, as I think that will be a disaster for everyone. I wish there was a solution in sight but really don't trust the government to come up with a decent one.

@noblegiraffe

I have read lots of threads on here from teachers suggesting rotas etc to make schools safer.

These were generally threads about secondary where there were, up till the last weeks before Christmas when it went mad, far more covid problems than primary.

Rotas would work at secondary, we don’t have huge numbers of keyworker kids.

Primary could start looking at expanding their spaces and utilising currently furloughed sports groups/forest schools/other people trained to look after children to increase their offer. But that would cost money.

Where? Not enough places to do this.

There are simply not enough spaces available near here to do this.

I know the school did explore the option at one point but couldnt find the space and there were issues with insurance and health and safety.

For each site they needed multiple staff. Thats where it started to get particularly messy. It wasnt just extra staff for each staff, you also needed extra on the site with appropriate first aid training.

I wish this was remotely doable. Its just not.

This is what i find frustrating. I KNOW the school have already seriously looked at all these suggestions and found dead ends.

There isnt an alternative.

Opening in Feb when cases are still high is a recipe for disaster. It will just be like September. Lots of schools will be closed instantly - including for key worker and vulnerable kids. Its a worse scenario then the schools going online.

I KNOW the school have already seriously looked at all these suggestions and found dead ends.

I know that other schools looked at this, found solutions and then were told by the DfE that they weren't allowed to use them.

There are certainly spaces near my DC's primary that could be used. It doesn't have to be the same solution for every school.

I'm not arguing for schools opening in Feb, btw, I'm arguing that schools can open sooner and better than having to hang around waiting till everyone has been vaccinated or opening and having rampant covid spread again.

"I wish this was remotely doable. Its just not."

If the government were prepared to consult with and listen to educationalists, along with scientists, and invest time, thought and money in education, I do think it would be possible.

Not every school with every child in after eg Easter, but every school moving constructively towards that.

There seems to be no political will, let alone money, to make this happen though.

What I want to happen is for proper talks to happen now, with the government, DfE, unions and current primary and secondary heads (not MAT CEOs). I want them to discuss and share possible ideas.

Why would this not be a good idea?

x-post with noblegiraffe

I'm a parent, not a teacher, and it astounds me the degree to which parents/carers who obviously care deeply about their children's education (and many who also care about more than their own children's) let the government off the hook over and over again.

Education has been systematically under-funded for years in the UK. Yet so many people seem quite happy to ignore this situation, or act as though it's materialised with no political strategy and deliberation behind it, and reduce what should be a complex discussion into anodyne utterances like 'children need to be in school'.

@Letseatgrandma

What I want to happen is for proper talks to happen now, with the government, DfE, unions and current primary and secondary heads (not MAT CEOs). I want them to discuss and share possible ideas.

Why would this not be a good idea?

It is a good idea. The NAHT have also asked the government to include PHE in the discussions.

Nobody would argue against more funding in state if they use it. There still an obvious practical issue re numbers.

All other options that cost money, great, yet you still have the issue with where to put KW if you displace with non KW children.

Christina how would you do it?

@Letseatgrandma why don't you want MAT CEOs to be included in discussions. Our local MAT CEO is very supportive of staff, wants pupil numbers capped in schools at the moment, wouldn't want schools to fully open unless rates/conditions are improved etc

@Letseatgrandma

What I want to happen is for proper talks to happen now, with the government, DfE, unions and current primary and secondary heads (not MAT CEOs). I want them to discuss and share possible ideas.

Why would this not be a good idea?

It would be an excellent idea! But this Government doesn’t want to do it because:

They don’t do forward planning
They don’t understand the necessity for forward planning
They are incapable of seeing anyone else’s point of view
They despise the public sector
They despise the public generally, and don’t care about it
It would involve spending money they don’t want to spend, other than on their cronies
It’s not politically necessary at the moment
They have most of the mainstream media on their side to spin and lie for them

I could go on and on. But mostly because they’re uncaring, incompetent bastards.