Could a health professional explain why BAME are more likely to contract Covid.

[Livinginthecity]

I know nothing about it so would like to be informed.

I’m leaning towards vitamin C deficiency rather than genetics. Simply because the rate of infection in Africa and the Caribbean should be off the scale if it was genetics; but those nations are faring comparatively well.

Surely if it were biological (ie due to skin colour etc) then India and Africa would have had worse outcomes than "whiter" countries but that's not the case. So it must be systemic.

There tends to be more sunshine in those places than northern Europe.

No vitamin D deficiencies.

From NHS

‘South Asians have a higher risk of type 2 diabetes than other ethnic groups, particularly when they migrate away from the Indian subcontinent. The researchers say that a high BMI is a risk factor for type 2 diabetes; however, analyses have shown that when weight and BMI are taken into account, the South Asian population is still at greater risk than other groups. They say this suggests that the high rate cannot be explained by differences in the amount of body fat people have.

The findings suggest that South Asian men have a lower rate of fat metabolism during exercise than European men. During resting states, fat metabolism was the same. The South Asian men also had a reduced sensitivity to insulin compared with the European group. This indicates a possible tendency towards glucose intolerance and type 2 diabetes.‘

Am I right in thinking that there are stats today showing that in this ‘peak’ more women are dying than men and more white people proportionally than BAME? If I’ve got that right, then why?

The following newspaper article states there are more women dying than men with the new Covid strain and more white people than BAME:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13717871/covid-killing-more-women-could-be-new-strain/

"Dr David Strain, a senior clinical lecturer at the University of Exeter, said there are a number of hypothetical reasons for the shift in trends."

"One of them, he told The Sun, is a change in the virus: "If we imagine everyone has a certain threshold of viral tolerance."

"If the amount of virus they come into contact with is above that threshold the exposure turns into the disease."

"Now the virus is more virulent, you need much lower amount to cause the infection, therefore people who previously were unlikely to catch the disease before (young fit women) are suddenly vulnerable."

Young people - those under the age of 60 - are still dying of Covid in relatively low numbers, and slightly less often than in the spring.

But doctors say they being admitted to hospital now more than ever before.

Dr Strain warned of a change in behaviour over the course of the pandemic, saying: "Younger patients, particularly white females, have been lulled into a false sense of security."

"Hearing on a regular basis that you are low risk means you are more likely to take the risks."

[quote Calmandmeasured1]The following newspaper article states there are more women dying than men with the new Covid strain and more white people than BAME:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/13717871/covid-killing-more-women-could-be-new-strain/[/quote]
I think you have misunderstood, it doesn't say that @Calmandmeasured1

It says that more women are dying in the second wave than in the first wave but overall more men are dying than women still.

More white people than BAME died in the first wave in the UK, purely because there are more white people in the UK. However, the risk of death was higher was higher for BAME individuals. The article suggests that is still the case but the risk has evened out slightly.

Dr Strain

@orangenasturtium
Thank you for correcting that. You are quite right. I think I must have had a brain storm. I had it correct in my own head and wrote it down totally incorrectly. Sorry folks.

Low income countries have few care homes.

When elderly develop chronic disease in a low income country, they tend to die quickly. They don't linger with multi-morbidities for years ready for a pandemic to finish them off.

Low income countries typically have mostly relatively young people.

It'll be a combination of factors won't it🤔
not all of which we are able to account for currently🤔

It’s vitamin D. All ethnic minorities should take vit D3 all year round.

The govt were discussing providing vit D to the population in general as it helps reduce severity of Covid.

Why was more not made of vit D btw?

Even if it isn’t of proven benefit, it’s easy and cheap to rollout. Why not promote it?

The idea of sending vit D out seems to have been shelved unfortunately

There must be links between a propensity to diabetes in some BaME groups-the common roots /connections between auto issues, inflammatory reactions, cytokine responses etc in diabetes and covid reactions...

Is vitamin D that significant? I was severely deficient at my first test, no previous tests so unsure how long I had been deficient for. I have since maintained very high levels. I wouldn’t say I was more susceptible to illness when I was deficient as there has been no change in that regard.

I think with BAME patients, it’s definitely systemic racism. I frequently see tweets from black women stating that medical professionals downplay their pain and problems etc and they have to fight to be heard. Black women are more likely to have pregnancy complications as a result of the subpar care

More likely to attend church / temple / mosque / place of workshop?

There was a spike in the Jewish community in the first lockdown which I think was due to having the festival of Purim just before lockdown.
Lots of people mixing in an inclosed space. Hugging and kissing people not in their household, sharing communal buffet meals

Places of worship must have been Petri dishes for COVID prior to lockdown.

There could be 100 reasons, it is more likely to be a combination of factors.

Asians usually have a lower lung capacity than white people who have a lower capacity than black people.

Most BAME people in Britain are a result of mass migration from the 19602 and 1970s, immigrants usually move to cities and the BAME populations still live in cities. People who's ancestors arrived in Britain 200 years ago are often still found in cities.

Lots of cultural factors, one (of many) reasons type II diabetes is badly controlled in some communities is due to beliefs about food. Things like the amount of sugar believed to be in vegetables depending on whether it is grown under or over ground.

Living conditions / traditions may play a part, culturally white British people are used to the idea of a care homes for elderly people, other cultures are more likely to keep granny in the family home .

When my Nana became a widow (30+ years ago) her neighbours who were mainly Pakistani couldn't understand why she wanted to live alone when she had three sons.

Then there is DNA, northern Europeans may have developed a gene that gives some protection. Most of the world is lactose intolerant, but most white people are not.

Some populations cannot tolerate alcohol.

The village of Eyam in Derbyshire has a population today with a higher number of people with a genetic immunity to the plague than the general population.

So take your pick, of course it could also be non of those things.

@piscis

Surely if it were biological (ie due to skin colour etc) then India and Africa would have had worse outcomes than "whiter" countries but that's not the case. So it must be systemic

But the life expectancy in Africa and India is not the same as in Europe. The virus kills mostly older people, people over 80 are more at risk, and there is a much much larger percentage of the population over that age in Europe than in Africa and India.
So, who knows...so many factors! Very difficult to know for sure.

Also its sunnier in Africa and India so expats living in Europe would fare worse than those living in sunnier countries i think.

Dr Ronx did a TV program about this recently called Is Covid Racist? It’s available on All 4.

@garlictwist there is a difference between BAME people living in their sunnier home countries where their skin would be able to uptake am much vitamin D as they need (which is more considering it's harder for darker skin to obtain vitamin D from the sun and so they need more of it) and those same people living in the UK where apparently you cannot get adequate levels of vitamin D from the sun from October-March.

India doesn’t keep a record of every death so how do you know what people are dying of?

Also BAME children seem to suffer more from the rare reaction to Covid in the first wave, from the report I saw it was over 70% of children were BAME, not sure why this hasn’t been picked up and discussed?

I didn't know that about lung capacity Sashh!

I was discussing this with an Indian colleague. There has always been an increased incidence of diabetes in Asian Europeans compared to native Asians thought to be linked to the change/difference in diet and lifestyle. Also probably genetic predisposition more noticeable in northern hemisphere - explanation too complex. Diet is much more vegetable based in India for example but more meat based in Pakistan (Indian friend is married to Pakistani Muslim) diet is very different when they emigrate the advantages they have genetically in the Southern Hemisphere may become disadvantageous in northern hemisphere. We are essentially multiple sub species that have adapted to our environment but over a very short period of time in the great scheme of things we have totally mixed things up.

We are essentially multiple sub species that have adapted to our environment but over a very short period of time in the great scheme of things we have totally mixed things up.

I'm sure you don't mean it this way but suggesting that there are different human sub species is often used by racists. There are no human sub species.