Chris Whitty in The Times today - don't meet friends and family unnecessarily

[MrsMiaWallis]

"Emergency patients will be turned away from hospitals, causing “avoidable deaths”, unless the public starts obeying the lockdown, England’s chief medical officer warns today.
In a stark intervention designed to shock, Professor Chris Whitty warns that everyone who meets friends and family unnecessarily is a “link in a chain” that threatens the lives of vulnerable people"

Worth noting. I had to pick up a prescription from my local town and was surprised to see so many people - mainly middle aged women, some of whom I know and had always seemed like rational intelligent people - walking around town and chatting on the pavements, unmasked, no social distancing.

Apologies I don't know how to do share tokens.

@NailsNeedDoing

People were never going to abide by such tight restrictions indefinitely, there seemed to be an awareness of that fact when we went into the first lockdown but it’s been forgotten now and people are being blamed for the virus spreading just for wanting to do the most basic of things.

At the first lockdown, people were prepared to buy into the rules because we could see how seriously the government was taking the situation by closing schools, starting furlough, the shielding scheme etc. But when the government starts issuing rules that make little sense, when people are expected to risk themselves to work with multiple people for very little money yet aren’t allowed to see their own families, then they are allowed to see their families, then they aren’t again, we start to realise that these rules are just based on opinions and we can use our own common sense.

Agree Rule fatigue hit about mid April.

@EmmanuelleMakro

There is a canoe club next to where I live where large groups indoors have flouted the rules throughout, gathering in large numbers indoors. They were there for hours yesterday after their ‘exercise on the river’ even though on their website of course they say that the club is 100% closed. Even if the police arrived, unless they broke the door down they wouldn’t be able to do anything as no-one would answer the door... They’ done it though all the lockdowns do probably think they are just above the law..

If they’ve done it all through lockdown Sounds like they’re all as fit as a butchers dog

Sorry but I fail to see a problem

He is

I Work for a Major Supermarket, its shocking how many people meet up and treat it like a day out, Mum and Dad and 3 kids in tow, meeting with other family.Not wearing masks properly and treating this whole situation like its a joke. Often the same people coming in daily for something to do. When are People going to take this seriously. I have a close relative working in our local ICU and its horrifying what these people are going through. Please we all need to work together on this, its the only way we are going to end this Horrible virus.
We all miss people dear to us, so dont be selfish.

One other thing we have now that we didn’t have back in March is a vaccine roll out. This widely will have an impact on transmission as well.*
Well it probably won’t, as your immune system isn’t some kind of bubble around you. I find it impossible to believe the vaccine will stop transmission all together. Rather just help protect the person injected. The virus will still try to enter your body and your immune system will know to kill it when it does. You can still pass it around, surely that is obvious.

This whole idea that vaccines are the only way out, is wrong. It is a weapon in our artillery and very useful, but the fact remains that anyone under 50 is likely not to see one for flippin months.

@NCstaythefuckathome

Because if 1 in 60 have it, then for every 30 people who meet 30 other people, somebody is going for a walk with a covid positive person, and can they guarantee they will be sufficiently SD over that period that they won’t catch it, given the new strain is easier to catch.

Haven't rtft, but this extrapolation of the 1 in 60 stat won't be right, because even allowing for asympomatic people who don't know they have it, a significant number of people who have covid will be isolating and not amongst the cohort of people meeting others for walks.

However, I agree with the general point that we should be very wary of meeting outside with the new variant running riot.

Sorry meant to say haven't rtft so I don't know if anyone has already made the point.

Am fuming because no matter what I do, like not even see my parents who rely on me for everything, I am at the mercy of others doing the right thing

I feel you! We are forced to take on other people’s bad & inadequate ability to assess risk.

I was shocked today when i drove to my place of work to access some files. There were so many people out shopping. Homebase and The Range carparks we're almost full!

A young mum with primary school age kids was waiting for a bus with a rolled up newt purchased rugs and huge bags of non food items .....

This week i lost a fit and healthy friend to Covid in the south of england where the cases are relatively low. It has really hit home how dangerous the covid situation is at the moment.

Please stay home x

Chris Whitty has done everything he can to get the message across, but the hard of thinking just won't believe the danger is real, until they (or their family/friends) fall seriously ill, or they lose someone to Covid.

I really like CW, but must admit I did laugh at him a bit when he appeared on the news this evening, as he was on Zoom from his home, and he had his face so close to the camera that at times it blurred a bit and he looked like an alien! He's lovely but if he painted his face grey he would look like an alien out of a sci fi film.

@Flatoutandfluffy
Maybe when more of the public have experienced first hand the devastating effect of losing a loved one to Covid, they will start to take the lockdown more seriously.

I think that is a bit the point. Not many people actually know that many people who have had it, let alone died.

When the crisis first started, I worked out roughly, from figures being bandied about, how many people I knew were likely to die. I know a lot of people, especially elderly ones.
I worked out I was likely to lose 30 people. As it has turned out so far, although I know about 15 people who have had it, I only know [of} one person who has actually died from it. Thankfully.

I think people generally have worked out, amongst other things, that their chances, especially if not elderly, of dying from covid are negligible. And are more than ready now, to take their chance in going out and about.

MandieMandie:

I Work for a Major Supermarket, its shocking how many people meet up and treat it like a day out, Mum and Dad and 3 kids in tow, meeting with other family.Not wearing masks properly and treating this whole situation like its a joke. Often the same people coming in daily for something to do. When are People going to take this seriously.

Yes, I've seen similar things in supermarkets. It was annoying enough pre Covid, but is maddening now. Food shopping should not be used as a way to entertain children! I understand it must be difficult to keep kids occupied and the winter weather isn't helping, but it's utterly stupid behaviour.

@Defenbaker Have you noticed that Van Tam looks like Penfold from Danger Mouse.

@MercyBooth Well, I've never watched Dangermouse so wasn't familiar with Penfold, but now I've just googled it and can never unsee it! So now JVT is AKA Penfold, henceforth.

OH CRUMBS!

People aren’t complying with the guidance, they aren’t keeping 2 meters apart and are still mixing with an ‘it’s only me seeing so and so’ the new variant is so contagious people need to stay home and stay apart when they absolutely have to go out. It’s not about individuals who choose to live with risk it’s about the victims they pass it into.

@Tiredwiththeshits

* One other thing we have now that we didn’t have back in March is a vaccine roll out. This widely will have an impact on transmission as well.* Well it probably won’t, as your immune system isn’t some kind of bubble around you. I find it impossible to believe the vaccine will stop transmission all together. Rather just help protect the person injected. The virus will still try to enter your body and your immune system will know to kill it when it does. You can still pass it around, surely that is obvious.

This whole idea that vaccines are the only way out, is wrong. It is a weapon in our artillery and very useful, but the fact remains that anyone under 50 is likely not to see one for flippin months.

I’m with you on the va((s After the inventor of one of the previous vaxes said, he used to hold his breath until the 30 millionth person had been injected , I don’t think it’ll be any time soon for me

[quote lightand]@Flatoutandfluffy
Maybe when more of the public have experienced first hand the devastating effect of losing a loved one to Covid, they will start to take the lockdown more seriously.

I think that is a bit the point. Not many people actually know that many people who have had it, let alone died.

When the crisis first started, I worked out roughly, from figures being bandied about, how many people I knew were likely to die. I know a lot of people, especially elderly ones.
I worked out I was likely to lose 30 people. As it has turned out so far, although I know about 15 people who have had it, I only know [of} one person who has actually died from it. Thankfully.

I think people generally have worked out, amongst other things, that their chances, especially if not elderly, of dying from covid are negligible. And are more than ready now, to take their chance in going out and about.[/quote]
That sounds sensible.

My son was is a carer and worked with covid clients and didn’t get it, neither has his missus and children who are all out and about.
Of the people I know ( some very vaguely) who’ve had it.
Only one 77 year old died early on . I don’t know the ins and outs but it was when they used the ventilators at the beginning. Maybe that’s what caused it but I honestly don’t know.
Of the ones who have recovered, some have big co morbidities and over 60

It's always been a joint effort.

Government set guidleines for the thngs they want us to do; they set laws for the things we must do

We are supposed to conform to the latter and to use common dense with the former.

The guidance is a tightrope, always would be - too tight and public compliance would wane early; too loose and public compliance would disappear. It was always going to be a moveable feast as the nature of the virus changed. It was always going to chop and change as public opinion did - the desire not to criminalise us has been stated strongly from the start - which is why various podium speakers have carefully said the police are overstepping, Matt Hancock repeated that last night!

Behaviourists form part of Sage - they can but try to guesstimate when pulbic opinion changes and what can and cannot be born as guidance!

Problems come when people, Them or Us, act in ways that undermine the guidance.

From Cummings and Ferrier, Morgan etc to numerous MN posters - all looking for confirmation that they can legally sidestep the guidance if it isn't convenient!

Personally I couldn't give a monkeys about the blame game today! Let everyone do their best and lets just get through this year... and stop fucking moaning about the breadth or dirth of bubbles etc!

Yesterday I walked to drop off some essential shopping to someone isolating and couldn't believe how many people were out (usually quiet small town)... no distancing or masks but clearly from different households and so many didn't even move on pavements or paths so I had to step in to road or verge to make enough space. The only mask I was on one very elderly lady pulling a shopping trolley. Didn't feel safe. 😔

@SophieB100

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/11/in-these-grim-times-we-all-need-a-saviour-and-right-now-it-is-chris-whitty

John Crace, always worth a read, on the main man.

Thanks for that article - good read. I've noticed SAGE scientists have been using the truth by omission method lately. Commenting "that would have been a political decision" to denote "that isn't following the bloody science" when asked!

We need a fear campaign as some people are not getting the message. It is a dire situation, we can all make excuses for what we want to do. Take aook at the Aids campaign in the 80's, awful and now not PC but worked. Similar with no smoking and seatbelt campaigns, can you imagine now its your right to not wear a seat belt? We all have to make sacrifices even if we think they are no risk, the NHS will be on its knees else

We need a fear campaign

They overplayed that hand a long time ago.

People under 50 with no health conditions know they’re not at any great risk here. General scaremongering is counterproductive.

Wanna be reminded of something else that happened with AIDS in the 80s that is also now happening with Covid?! The blame rhetoric.

The powers that be blaming humans for acting like.........like humans!!!

i think more and more of us now know someone who has had it, and if not died from it, been very rough with it.