All of you up in arms over people taking key worker places?

[Wontdothisagain]

Do you also think that non essential businesses should be closed? Or do you think that they don't contribute to spread?

For example Greggs, McDonald's, Burger King are all open.

I have family who work in factories and warehouses in crowded conditions making and packing very non essential goods.

B&Q is open and today is busy and full of family groups.

No doubt The Range is the same.

Do you feel as angry about all of this than for example, an NHS admin worker using a key worker space?

The first lockdown worked
There were a handful of kids in schools. Non essential workplaces really were closed. The roads were absolutely empty.

Now schools are 30-50% full and there seems almost as much traffic as ever and yet the NHS is in a worse situation than it was then with no prospect of it slowing down.

We need a harder lockdown

It should be absolutely socially unacceptable to send your DC to school on a keyworker place if you have a SAHP or non working parent.
If you are working but able to wfh I think it's more debatable but one keyworker and a non working parent they should be ashamed of themselves and whatever the excuse I don't want to hear it.
Vulnerable child places should be gatekept by social workers and schools themselves.

Some of this non essential stuff will have to shut or at least we need companies to stop issuing 'keyworker' letters to staff who could in fact wfh and it's only their precious profits at risk.

Companies need to allow flexible working and furlough for childcare reasons for really little kids.

If we lock down hard and properly now then it won't need to be for as long.

Expect Boris to announce all this in about a weeks time as deaths continue to rise and he comes under pressure

Personally I would want them all to close. Whilst I don't agree with lockdown these half hearted ones cause economic hardships and a limited impact on the virus. I would rather a shorter sharper lockdown where everything save supermarkets and pharmacies close for say 3 weeks. So much is open now that I worry this is fruitless.

I don't understand why anyone would send their dc in if there are no exceptional circumstances and there is a parent at home and not working.

I think wfh is debatable. Depends imo on the job, the age of the child, whether there are two parents wfh or one out of the house/single parent.

I'm simply trying to point out that for a parenting site, people on here seem to relish in literally making other parents out to be scum of the earth. Telling parents that they should give up work or take months of unpaid leave.

It's also become perfectly acceptable to sit some poor 4/5 year old on an iPad for 8 hours, but it's fine for The Range to be open.

Is it not better from thr child's perspective to be in school, if a place is available? The list of keyworkers in Scotland is really small and it has to be both parents working out of the house as keyworkers to get a place. Sounds like the issue is with schools giving out too many places, not parent's fault for wanting to maintain some normality for their kids.

Things that are not usually acceptable are acceptable in a disaster situation which this is

-Small child in front of a screen for hrs. Normally shit parenting but right now just what needs to be done.

• wfh with no childcare. Normally would be pisstaking but should be perfectly acceptable in current circumstances.

Everyone is having to do stuff that wouldn't usually be recommended or best right now. Face to face medical consultations are better then remote for many situations but if that causes a risk of Covid spread it is acceptable to have a less good alternative.

We are in a scenario in the NHS where things that would ideally be good care can't happen due to Covid. Surgery that should be done is cancelled. People are getting discharged before they ideally would and staffing ratios are not what they should be for good care. We no longer have access to physio or OT at all on my ward. Just got no staff due to sickness and redeployment. Patients who should be having this just can't.

In that context then people have to accept that not only can they not get a haircut or go to the gym or the cinema but even things more important than that will have to temporarily stop so their child cannot get the ideal social stimulation or education.

We all need to share this pain and these sacrifices a bit right now.

There should be a Marie kondometer. You use it to scan activities, shops and items in shops and if anything looks like it will bring you even the teensiest bit of joy you need to report it so it can get taken away immediately. Joy is how Covid spreads.

It is better from the child's POV
And from DHs who could work more effectively
And from mine who would feel less guilty
DH and I have had COVID already so there's not even a risk for us

I am still not sending DS because it's not just me and my family that matter.

-If DS takes a place from someone who needs it more that matters
-If he hasn't already had it asymptomatically from us he might get it and spread it and then many people might get ill and some may need hospital care AND the bubble will close for all who need it. That matters

I wish people would stop being such selfish sods and see the bigger picture

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

It is better from the child's POV And from DHs who could work more effectively And from mine who would feel less guilty DH and I have had COVID already so there's not even a risk for us

I am still not sending DS because it's not just me and my family that matter.

-If DS takes a place from someone who needs it more that matters
-If he hasn't already had it asymptomatically from us he might get it and spread it and then many people might get ill and some may need hospital care AND the bubble will close for all who need it. That matters

I wish people would stop being such selfish sods and see the bigger picture

And one more that I haven't seen any of the "but my child's had Covid so the risk to staff is minimal" parents.

• by sending more children into school (even if they've had Covid) this means more children shoulder to shoulder in small classrooms. Your child may be fine/immune, but this may force other children to sit together who might have had more space.

My child caught Covid from being shoulder to shoulder in a tiny classroom, sat next to a child with Covid.

@CovoidOfAllHumanity

The first lockdown worked There were a handful of kids in schools. Non essential workplaces really were closed. The roads were absolutely empty.

Now schools are 30-50% full and there seems almost as much traffic as ever and yet the NHS is in a worse situation than it was then with no prospect of it slowing down.

We need a harder lockdown

It should be absolutely socially unacceptable to send your DC to school on a keyworker place if you have a SAHP or non working parent.
If you are working but able to wfh I think it's more debatable but one keyworker and a non working parent they should be ashamed of themselves and whatever the excuse I don't want to hear it.
Vulnerable child places should be gatekept by social workers and schools themselves.

Some of this non essential stuff will have to shut or at least we need companies to stop issuing 'keyworker' letters to staff who could in fact wfh and it's only their precious profits at risk.

Companies need to allow flexible working and furlough for childcare reasons for really little kids.

If we lock down hard and properly now then it won't need to be for as long.

Expect Boris to announce all this in about a weeks time as deaths continue to rise and he comes under pressure

My workplace has never been closed and it's non essential. Manufacturing has always continued to operate throughout the entire pandemic.

In NewZealand they had an extremely strict lockdown and that seemed to work very well. I believe it was literally just supermarkets that were open, no Amazon type delivery of non essential goods, no takeaways and schools completely shut even to key workers. I think people who absolutely needed childcare I.e nurses etc were able to form a bubble of sorts but no other mixing allowed. I would support a lockdown on this type of level if it got us out of this mess quicker and I am also one of the people who is outraged by the situation in schools.

And look where New Zealand is now one of few countries to celebrate Xmas properly!

Many more takeaways including McDonald’s and Greggs were shut in March why can’t this be 5he case again?

Why not close the big food outlets like Macdonald’s Let the little local shops stay open with strict one in one out policy. Will keep people local, keep people separate and benefit small businesses and local communities. So local small take away, butcher, etc. More than enough alongside supermarkets

Have people lost the ability to make their own meals? People survived without Costa, Greggs, mcDonalds etc. They took sandwiches to work, pot noodles perhaps, soup in a flask, leftovers. Anyone would think that fast food is essential for shift workers. In all my years as a nurse working a variety of shifts there was no reliance on fast food that I was aware of, all the staff brought in their meals or bought from the hospital. Hospitals have canteens as do many work places although I appreciate some places might have closed them now. In Sheffield the hospital dining room was open from about midnight to 2am for the night staff and then opened about 6 for the early shift workers. Sometimes I popped in for breakfast after a nightshift. Sheffield teaching hospitals were great on many levels though and the food was on of those. Another I worked at put plated up meals and sandwiches in a vending machine and provided a microwave. Yes, there's the issue of jobs but closing places like those I've mentioned would surely help tackle transmission. No one will suffer if they can't get a Costa on their daily walk. But a flask off Amazon and a milk frothier 🤷🏼‍♀️ As a nation far too many are reliant on convenience but that discussion is beyond the scope of this thread due to the many factors involved such a crap break times, working hours. Remember the one hour lunch break?

Do people not think that if they shut absolutely everything other than supermarkets and pharmacies, that people won’t just all pile in to those places instead??

@FlatteredRhubardFool I agree, with you regarding working people, it’s easy enough to make a packed lunch etc but a previous poster did point out that not everyone has cooking facilities, or people to cook for them and rely on take always fir a hot cooked meal. This is a fair point

@CakeQueen87

In NewZealand they had an extremely strict lockdown and that seemed to work very well. I believe it was literally just supermarkets that were open, no Amazon type delivery of non essential goods, no takeaways and schools completely shut even to key workers. I think people who absolutely needed childcare I.e nurses etc were able to form a bubble of sorts but no other mixing allowed. I would support a lockdown on this type of level if it got us out of this mess quicker and I am also one of the people who is outraged by the situation in schools.

There is no comparison between U.K. and New Zealand. Two very different countries with two very different geographical and physical realities.

Takeaways should be open, I think they've worked hard to make their businesses covid safe and didn't reopen til that was the case. They are on reduced staff and are clear the wait might be longer as a result which is fine. The range should not be open. No one gets their entire food shop from there it's just the odd bargain picked up when you go in for something else that could be bought elsewhere. B&Q and supermarkets should go back to one adult per visit unless you are supporting someone. There should be no big family groups. Only my opinion of course.

There are people who go travel for business (allowed) who deserve the convenience of a takeaway or drive thru. I wouldn't think that a lorry driver getting fast food at a service station was problematic or non-essential at all.

@CKBJ

And look where New Zealand is now one of few countries to celebrate Xmas properly!

Many more takeaways including McDonald’s and Greggs were shut in March why can’t this be 5he case again?

I suspect that McDonalds etc shut because they needed time to work out how to keep employees safe and how not to be the source of a Covid outbreak. (The scientific knowledge was much less then) Remember that people were wiping shopping because it was considered possible that there was Covid on the surface of items. You could get pizzas or other deliveries via apps like Uber Eats and I suspect that they are one of the few businesses who profited from the pandemic

@WhoLettheCatOut

Personally I would want them all to close. Whilst I don't agree with lockdown these half hearted ones cause economic hardships and a limited impact on the virus. I would rather a shorter sharper lockdown where everything save supermarkets and pharmacies close for say 3 weeks. So much is open now that I worry this is fruitless.

I had hoped that we would have had this type of lockdown by now. It would have been far more effective than what we have which is infections and deaths rising on an almost daily basis. The NHS simply cannot cope with this, and people will die as they can't access treatment. Then what? I don't even want to think about that but I truly believe that is what we're facing in the next few days/weeks if a strict lockdown is not enforced.