Children who don’t consent to a lateral flow test should be treated as positive and sent home

[user1471505494]

Schools now have much higher numbers attending than in the first lockdown. The lateral flow test was brought into schools to try and keep Staff and pupils as safe as possible.

If a parent or child refuses consent is absolutely their RIGHT to do so and I appreciate that there are many varied reasons for this. It should therefore be the RESPONSIBILITY of the schools to safeguard others and send the child home to self isolate.

@marshmallowfluffy

LF tests are not accurate at all.

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4469

Would you be happy for your child to be sent home after a test that's barely 50% accurate?

Yes.

It's about reducing the risk of covid. Not saying 100% you have or don't have it.

@Mumofsend I would say that in this case if you DC is with a 1:1 then social distancing could be maintained so risk could be minimal. I totally agree, she should not be put at additional risk and sleepovers etc are totally unacceptable. This is why I would not allow my DS in school if he refused the test, he is able to do it even if it may upset him or make him uncomfortable.

It's a tricky one, whilst I don't think a right to education during this 6 week period trumps people's health there is a way to ensure this isn't the case with good management of the whole thing.

What does the lateral flow test involve?

@Schmoozer

Surely children with sensory issues would have to tolerate having a test if they were going to access any hospital treatment ? As this is something that is likely to be an issue for many months to come, surely these children need to be supported to get used to these tests as opposed to expecting them to access education without tests and run the risk of spreading infection ??

Thats not how it works ive told my son he is taking the test he will try but if he hyperventilates and passes out the school will have to deal with it he might mask his anxiety and explode at home im sure the bruises I will get will be worth it to some

www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4848

I've already posted some links which give various % on how good these tests are at detecting positive cases.

Schmoozer where is your evidence please?

Having said that, given my DD goes to a school where all the children have at least moderate learning difficulties, alongside severe and profound LD, it surprises me when I hear or read of so many children who 'can't wear a mask', because all the children who come to DD1's school on transport (probably 150 ish) wear a mask from the moment they get on transport, until their classroom, so up to an hour. So when I see someone whose child has mainstream education and some specific learning difficulties say 'they're exempt from wearing a mask', I must admit that I feel a bit suspicious as to how much they've tried hmm

Exactly my experience as well. All of the kids wear a mask going to and from the transport and inside when travelling, it's not an option to say no. No they're not pleasant, none of us like it but it's presented as something that needs to be done so they do it.

@NailsNeedDoing I think there are 2 different scenarios here though. NT children should only be in school if their parents are critical workers, there is no reason for them not to have the test so they should absolutely do so, they are not necessarily receiving a different education when in school as it is really there for childcare.

If a child has significant additional needs and needs to attend school for their own safety but cannot have a test then proper procedures should be put in place to ensure they do not have contact with others.

A right to education should be put above people's health during a pandemic. In the big scheme of things it is short term

I can understand why for some people the test is impossible (Eg send)

But for those who don't come into that category refusal is just asserting some kind of rights because they can. There is absolutely no reason someone who could take the test can't and I agree social responsibility shouldn't be an option.

So don't force anyone to take the test (that's pushing ethics a bit far) but have testing a condition for certain things.

I think again we need to separate out the two potential uses of these tests in schools because it's not been clear in messaging.

Use 1 - testing everyone that returns to school. Reasonable use of tests, as if you do find any positive cases they wouldn't have otherwise been detected so that's a win.

Use 2 - using them instead of isolating contacts of known positive cases. Irresponsible and dangerous (in my opinion). Which is why I'm not going to consent for this use if my children ever get to go back to school, they can isolate instead.

@HouseofBrieandBanter

I think you should be boss of the world for your excellent shouting at internet strangers OP

😂😂

Lateral flow tests are not invasive. Invasive means that an item goes beyond a natural body cavity, usually by slicing, piercing or puncturing the skin.

Equally, the swab goes about 2.5cm into the nose. It does not cause 'nasal burns' as I have heard claimed.

Students shouldn't be routinely tested on a regular basis. They should have 2 tests, no more than 5 days apart, on returning to education. Then, only if they are a close contact of a confirmed positive case, they will have 7 day serial testing. Teachers are being tested weekly regardless.

Every person has the right to decline testing. But if they decline, they will have to go home and isolate for 10 days if they are a close contact.

@jakeyboy1

I don't understand when this is coming in, how it's going to be done and even why given it isn't a reliable form of testing?

Yes it would be great to have everyone tested and know results but from what I've read this is not reliable.

It’s started at the school I work at.

There is no way I could compel my autistic 17 year old DS to have the test. He’s 6’3 and has the comprehension skills of a 2-3 year old. He can’t talk, let alone reason with me. He also packs a punch when having a meltdown.
I have decided to keep him home and attempt to teach him myself. We’re doing ok. We managed the first lockdown, we’ll manage now. I’m fortunate that I have 4 other adults in our household who can help me, I appreciate that not everyone has that and school is the best place for their child.

DD2 had her first test on Tuesday. Registration card given, self-administered swab under supervision, test in a cardboard bowl with time of test written on the test and time to read (30 minutes later) written on cardboard bowl. Child returns to class and isn't told anything unless they are positive.

When parent finds out about the registration card (looking at you, DD2!! ) they register the test and then they get a confirmation of the result.

One of my DD’s has a phobia of vomiting and gets hysterical with anything that causes her to gag so I wouldn’t put her through it in public unless she herself had symptoms that being said she isn’t at school at the moment anyway and if she were I agree she should have to isolate if she were in contact with a case.

My child is autistic and I tested him. It's possible.

Schools should be closed, no need for tests for kids, if they were at home.

@EndoplasmicReticulum

A lot of people are missing the point with these tests.

Seems like OP thinks a negative lateral flow test means you're safe to attend school.

Maybe you are, maybe you're not.
You could flip a coin instead.

Not necessarily safe but definitely safer

Result

What happens if a parent doesn't give consent but the child wants it or vice versa?
My kids school have said that over 16s are the one to give their own consent. I have no problem with this especially as I agree with my child's POV

Covid tests aren't invasive but are uncomfortable. I know I'll get replies from people who didn't feel a thing but most people would agree with discomfort

@lougle how quickly did you receive that, I am really confused about the card we received to be honest. DS said we had to register on the website but the card actually says it needs to be registered before the test takes place?

@marshmallowfluffy

What happens if a parent doesn't give consent but the child wants it or vice versa? My kids school have said that over 16s are the one to give their own consent. I have no problem with this especially as I agree with my child's POV

Covid tests aren't invasive but are uncomfortable. I know I'll get replies from people who didn't feel a thing but most people would agree with discomfort

If the child is over 16, they give their own consent as long as they are deemed competent. If they are under 16, then if the parent doesn't consent, the test isn't done. If the parent gives consent but the child declines, it still isn't done.

Being on a ventilator is more uncomfortable than a covd test though

Being on a ventilator is more uncomfortable than a covd test though

Are people still trotting out this tired old line?

Ventilated patients are almost always sedated so the comfort of the ventilation is irrelevant, they are unaware of it.

[quote PugInTheHouse]@lougle how quickly did you receive that, I am really confused about the card we received to be honest. DS said we had to register on the website but the card actually says it needs to be registered before the test takes place?[/quote]
If you register it now, you'll get the result in about 90 seconds, ime. The website is simple, if long-winded. I said 'yes' to 'do they have an email?' but I used my own email address so that I get the result. Same with phone number.