Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

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Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

**I think that lots of people who were originally afraid now are no longer afraid- because we now have more data to show that young healthy people and children are very unlikely to become seriously ill.

I'm not saying this is right, but I can see that it's how people are thinking. They feel confident that they and their kids aren't at risk and so they aren't complying.

I know people who pulled their kids out or school during lockdown one and stopped working or shopping. They are now sending kids to school, working and breaking guidelines as they personally don't feel at risk**

@Chaotic45

Absolutely right!

**I agree, although I also think that stopping driving instructors working would have meant that no one could learn to drive or take a test for a year.

That's fairly major if you're 18 and don't live near a town, or if you need to retest to continue driving.

I accept though that it's a job where it is pretty impossible to be safe**

Agreed too. It’s awful for the exact reason you state.

@Itisasecret apologies, I didn't realise that. I thought I'd seen driving instructors operating in my local area, but I must be mistaken.

Once they are allowed to work though it would be of great benefit if the more effective type of mask was available to them and other at risk workers.

I accept that as they are in such short supply they must be prioritised for the most at risk of NHS workers. But I don't understand why production of these masks wasn't made a priority. It would have been hugely beneficial if they were more available.

@Everleigh2021

I’d argue with the ‘90 per cent of Britons‘ are complying statement!!

Yes - I’d say it’s higher than that

@TableFlowerss

*The roads have been busy since the May bank holidays. We had 6-8 weeks of lockdown, that was it*

@User158340

Yes but for almost a year there have been some sort of sanctions. It’s never been ‘normal’.

There was a huge backlash as to why the government didn’t lockdown sooner when it first happened, but the reason was they knew that the public wouldn’t adhere to a strict lockdown for more than a few weeks.

They knew it wasn’t at its peak and were advised to hold back a few weeks before the full lockdown initially.

This is just a general observation, rather than personal opinion. People will comply to a degree but I just feel that the de-sensitisation process has begun. I don’t really know what the answer is, but that’s why the rates are so high.

Government cock up after cock up hasn't helped on the compliance front though, has it? And the mixed messages and leaving things open to interpretation almost seem deliberate.

When the pubs opened back up for tier 2 there was the whole idiocy over scotch eggs, which basically gave pubs the green light to just do what they want.

Driving instructors are not allowed to work and haven’t been for quite some time in T4 England. Now it’s a blanket ban.*

Yes, my DF is a driving instructor. This is the third time he has had to stop working

So, we can't get people to do what they're being asked to do, yet even if they were to do it, it would not be enough?

What on earth is the deal with that messaging??

A majority are at least mostly complying, but the point made by the scientists is the rules are too lax or vague anyway, which means people take advantage or interpret the rules to benefit them. The government guidance for kids being able to go to school is broad enough to include probably 90% of kids, if parents want to quote the small print.

I wouldn't say we're a nation of rule breakers, but a nation of rule benders.

I thought I'd seen driving instructors operating in my local area, but I must be mistaken

You're not necessarily mistaken; round here plenty are still working, but with the usual identifiers taken off their cars

Apparently they're saying it comes under "essential education"

@Everleigh2021

I work in essential retail, non food

It’s laughable. Store had queues yesterday of people wanting to come in and buy essential cushions,plants and curtains. Whole families bored, kids in tow to ‘get them out for a bit’

Masks when worn all seem to have little noses peeking out

Customers wandering round browsing with a Costa in hand

90 per cent?

Oh and the bubble thing....yeah it’s open to interpretation that one!

All of that is allowed, so those people are complying with the law.

Also is it 90% of people are fully complying to all advice, or 90% of the laws are being followed. As in, if I go out for exercise twice in one day am I included as NOT complying full stop, and someone holding a house party is in the same category? Or am I complying because I'm only breaking "advice" rather than breaking the law?

People taking their kids to garden centres are not breaking the law, although it may not follow the guidelines.

@Everleigh2021

I work in essential retail, non food

It’s laughable. Store had queues yesterday of people wanting to come in and buy essential cushions,plants and curtains. Whole families bored, kids in tow to ‘get them out for a bit’

Masks when worn all seem to have little noses peeking out

Customers wandering round browsing with a Costa in hand

90 per cent?

Oh and the bubble thing....yeah it’s open to interpretation that one!

Thing is, you'll see lots of the 5-10% who aren't complying, because careful people don't come into your stores. And yes, there are quite a few people taking the piss, and businesses pushing their luck, but that's not the majority. Even the issue people raise with too many key worker kids in school is not straightforward, in reality the NHS for example.is a.massive employer, there are lots of kids with EHCPs, and many key workers tried to keep kids home.first.time but either nearly broke under the pressure or used up all their annual leave / employer goodwill... The majority of people are trying to do the right thing, maybe we need to do.more, but don't think it benefits anyone if we all try to point fingers.

@Chaotic45 I agree regarding click and collect. A local hairdresser has opened the salon for click and collect shampoo, hair dye etc and apologised to customers for them having to queue for collection, assuring he would try and make the process quicker.Surely this is encouraging people to make unnecessary journeys ; they could post the items out . I understand them trying to keep the money coming in but it’s not a very well thought out plan.

**Government cock up after cock up hasn't helped on the compliance front though, has it? And the mixed messages and leaving things open to interpretation almost seem deliberate.

When the pubs opened back up for tier 2 there was the whole idiocy over scotch eggs, which basically gave pubs the green light to just do what they want**

@User158340

I can’t disagree with you at all

Just put this which was sent by a friend on the "Derbyshire Police" thread ... sorry it's the Daily Mail but thought you'd all enjoy it:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9129555/A-English-lockdown-Met-Police-probe-officers-spotted-flouting-Covid-curbs-INSIDE-London-caf.html

Get BT to sort out the problems with their infrastructure rather than insist on engineer visits into peoples homes when its a whole area thats having internet dropouts.

I agree about being more specific re-key worker roles, rather than blanket organisations. Both DH and I are key workers and our work really can't be done from home and is essential to national safety; but there are others we work with who work for the same organisations but do a role that is in no way critical at all, but because it can't be done from home are expected in. There are some in my place who literally have nothing they can do at the moment but are told categorically they must be in. Government departments so furlough not possible and GDPR rules means nothing can be done from home. Just in my place alone there is probably 30+people like this, and there are hundreds of these places across the country. It will be the same for other Government departments too. Ridiculous!

[quote MerciSeat]@lockeddownandcrazy

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Neither ASD - Autism - or domestic violence prevent you from wearing a mask. Some people who have ASD or who have experienced a particular type of domestic violence might have a valid reason, in which case their doctor would be able to provide them with a medical exemption card they could use as proof.

Non of your stats show any specific percentage of people who should automatically have mask exemption with or without proof.

If I walk into a coffee shop and out again with a takeaway coffee I'm not putting anyone at risk.

They need to
Close the schools
Stop employees being made to work in the office
Close nurseries
Enforce mask rules

All would help

If I walk into a coffee shop and out again with a takeaway coffee I'm not putting anyone at risk.

What if you or a member of staff has covid? It’s also 2/3 employees there hanging around to serve you, potentially getting public transport to the cafe, their suppliers all working to send out the coffee beans, bread, cakes, whatever else is sold there.

I’m not sure I agree that takeaway coffees should be stopped - the place near me serves from their door with customers outside, which seems sensible - but really every interaction increases risk in some way and I think it’s useful to acknowledge that.

Yes every interaction increases risk, but perhaps also it's the behaviour of others

You might be sensible, but there is a coffee van near us, and people jsut happen to go at the exact same time as their friends and just have a quick word ....and once they start chatting , the time drifts long and the physical distance short

What if you or a member of staff has covid? It’s also 2/3 employees there hanging around to serve you, potentially getting public transport to the cafe, their suppliers all working to send out the coffee beans, bread, cakes, whatever else is sold there.

If you’re wearing a mask, not within 2 foot & don’t spend more than 15 minutes there then there shouldn’t be an issue. Also door should be opened frequently aiding ventilation

For the staff there should only be 3 if there is enough room to work safely, they have to wear masks, travelling to work - again public transport should be masked up and limited people on board

You might be sensible, but there is a coffee van near us, and people jsut happen to go at the exact same time as their friends and just have a quick word ....and once they start chatting , the time drifts long and the physical distance short

If the van is outside, where risk is very low as the virus is dispersed by the air easily, then surely this is far safer than a shop as no touching points, not inside

If I walk into a coffee shop and out again with a takeaway coffee I'm not putting anyone at risk

How can you be sure?

the reasons for leaving your house don't include getting a takeaway

Surely if takeaways are allowed to open, people are allowed to go buy them? The clue is in the name.

Likewise for walking around country parks etc. Most have hardly anyone living in walking distance. If they are allowed to open, that implies that people are allowed to drive to visit them.

@BarbaraofSeville

the reasons for leaving your house don't include getting a takeaway

Surely if takeaways are allowed to open, people are allowed to go buy them? The clue is in the name.

Likewise for walking around country parks etc. Most have hardly anyone living in walking distance. If they are allowed to open, that implies that people are allowed to drive to visit them.

Exactly, as long as takeaways and cove shops doing take away coffee are open then people will go, same with drive throughs. If the government want people to stay in then they should have closed these places.