Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

@Lovemusic33 I agree.

Same with click and collect non essential retail.

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that the head would expect him to go in to work physically when he has a vulnerable child at home

Sorry to burst your bubble but I know of two teachers with vulnerable children at home being asked to go in. I asked one about it and she said more than half the staff live with someone vulnerable so it’s not possible for them to stay home.

Also know teachers who are themselves in the vulnerable category and have to go into school.

In the summer I read that 90% of infections were caught indoors, which says that 10% were outdoors. Cold air, closeness and long duration and people will catch it outdoors

Outdoors is safer not totally safe
If it was there would be no need for restrictions on meeting people outdoors

midgebabe Can you link to the article or study?

@ivykaty44

midgebabe Can you link to the article or study?

I was going to say the same thing. I read it was even less than 10%. There were no big issues after the BLM marches or the packed beaches. of course, temperature makes a difference too....

Will search when I remember roughly where i,ca,e across it , that's why I was vague....

It's why the Germans closed the Christmas markets , so packing density counts also

@midgebabe

In the summer I read that 90% of infections were caught indoors, which says that 10% were outdoors. Cold air, closeness and long duration and people will catch it outdoors

Outdoors is safer not totally safe
If it was there would be no need for restrictions on meeting people outdoors

Could some of that extra 10% be caught in enclosed spaces not generally referred to as indoors e.g. cars or buses?

Some tighter measures like March are needed or we will never get this under control . If furlough is being paid until April then surely construction sites should shut now ? Takeaways and costas should be shut , garden centres should shut and no people should not be able to travel somewhere to exercise at the moment . If they crash their car that’s more strain on the NHS . None of this is ideal but it’s what’s needed . Fines should be handed on immediately for people out without a valid reason or mixing . People on Facebook or Twitter that share stupid conspiracy theories should have their accounts locked . I don’t want this thing hanging around , I want my kids safe, learning at school and for their birthdays this year not to be in lockdown, and I want to take them on a summer holiday . I despair at the idiots in this country .

No, like I say it was the justification for closing markets

Gwenhwyfar If temperature makes a difference does that mean it’s safer in the winter cold or the heat of the sun?

fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-a-summer-of-covid-19-taught-scientists-about-indoor-vs-outdoor-transmission/

academic.oup.com/jid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/infdis/jiaa742/6009483

These were the articles and studies I’d seen, which seem to indicate around 5/6% for outdoor infection

@Funkypolar

Bagamoyo1 - M&S allows couples. It’s not illegal.

You should not be surprised that when you behave anti-socially or selfishly you are called out on it. You have the choice of learning to live with it or thinking about your actions.

@Frozenintime

If I walk into a coffee shop and out again with a takeaway coffee I'm not putting anyone at risk.

A spokesman for the virus has confirmed that it doesn't infect people carrying a cup.

If it turns out that a lot of parents are sending their kids in because they simply cannot cope with managing their kids' education now that kids are actually doing serious home learning, suspending the curriculum (meaning that most teachers do nothing and just take a holiday, while a few TAs do only babysitting of KW kids) could work BUT I really only think this is only feasible if schools are prepared to teach over most of the summer instead. Otherwise the amount of learning loss is just going to be unmanageable.

There are so many people on Facebook still asking for odd jobs to be done ( book shelves made, small painting jobs) and selling stuff (lamps , cushions, plates) none of which are urgent or necessary; all meaning unnecessary journeys and contact.

tightening up the rules on essential workers. (as described up thread by a poster in the office.)

also children who are in school. (as described by previous posters. talking about sahp sending children in, then meeting in the park... not all of them will be vulnerable kids) (Some will be sen children like mine who are in because they won't work at home, but if proper catch up support was put in for them later then they could be out of school. eg: holiday club with lessons and football/crafts/and pizza so a bit of reward for going in)

get laptops out to kids who are in because of lack of devices and support broadband use and free data if required for school.

tightening up on mask wearing in little shops as well as big shops. mask wearing in school as well. (increase breaks so they can take them off for a bit outside.)

LastTrainEast -

@midgebabe

In the summer I read that 90% of infections were caught indoors, which says that 10% were outdoors. Cold air, closeness and long duration and people will catch it outdoors

Outdoors is safer not totally safe
If it was there would be no need for restrictions on meeting people outdoors

Think this is important to remember - outside isn't magic

@Ilovemyhairbeingstroked So you want to go on holiday. Yep Its all about the altruism isnt it!

@ArosAdraDrosDolig

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that the head would expect him to go in to work physically when he has a vulnerable child at home

Sorry to burst your bubble but I know of two teachers with vulnerable children at home being asked to go in. I asked one about it and she said more than half the staff live with someone vulnerable so it’s not possible for them to stay home.

Also know teachers who are themselves in the vulnerable category and have to go into school.

You don’t need to apologise for ‘bursting my bubble’ whatever that’s supposed to mean....

The clue is in the sentence ‘they were asked to go in’.... they don’t have to go in. They could say no and explain their genuine reasons, such as having a vulnerable child.

@Purplethrow
A lot of those selling things on Facebook are doing so in order to afford to buy food so I'd consider that pretty urgent.

if furlough is being paid until April then surely construction sites should shut now

Many people working on construction sites are self employed, often not through choice but due to the industry generally dodging employment and tax law.

So they can't be furloughed and a good proportion of self employed people have had little or no help for various reasons.

If they closed construction sites, which are low risk anyway as mostly outside and easy to social distance a lot of the time, they'd have to considerably overturn inequalities and unfair decisions in the support to this sector.

Neither ASD - Autism - or domestic violence prevent you from wearing a mask

DV

Autism

If you bothered to Google - or read threads on here - you would see that many people who autism or survivors of DV cannot wear masks. Simply digging your heels in and saying it isn't so doesn't make it not so.

Please respect government guidance. And try to show some empathy and kindness. God knows we could all do with a bit more of that right now.

I’m in Scotland and this lockdown is nothing like the first. Roads as busy as ever industries who closed completely last March are open. Massive industry’s like non essential construction and manufacturing. It’s a complete joke. I work on construction and right now I’m traveling from an area with the highest rates to work in one with the lowest. On our site is workers from England and areas all over Scotland . The chances for spreading all over the country is crazy. We even have some workers traveling from London on the train across the border. It amazing they allow this all for non essential work .

A lot of self-employed people have been unable to access any furlough/support payments so if they weren't working they wouldn't have had an income since last March, so is it surprising that they're continuing to go to work?

I also don't blame key workers who struggled through lockdown last time with DC at home for sending them to school this time, when we don't know lockdown will be lifted in mid-Feb. In fact, that date seems increasingly unlikely as the days roll on.

Remember too that 3 million or so Brits have now HAD Covid, so if they had a mild case they're going to feel like they've got nothing to worry about and just go about their lives. Others have continued to work throughout the pandemic and haven't had it yet, so will possibly feel like it's all a big fuss about nothing, particularly those in areas with very low numbers of cases.