Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

@Didthatreallyhappen2

It's quieter where I am than normal, but not the "ghost town" scenario we had back in March. Some shops aren't open, but lots that I would have thought would have to close are still trading. They only loosely fulfil the requirements of "essential shops".

Back in March I could walk down the centre of a usually very busy road to walk my dog. Now there's far too much traffic. :(

Where are all these people filling up the roads going on a Saturday afternoon/evening? I know people need to get shopping in, but they did in March when the roads were dead.

Barring emergencies people should only be using their cars at all for essential shopping.

@HarrietOh I seem to remember someone mentioning on here a while back and was told that if I loved DH I would want to protect him!

@MercyBooth if support bubbles are allowed to continue. I don't have a bubble but, if I did, I'd continue to see the other people,

@PilatesPeach

I guess the March style lockdown managed to get the "old" variant relatively under control but with the new variant, presumably even the March style might not work?

The thing with the March lockdown is it coincided with the start of British Summer Time and unseasonably warm weather and sunshine.

Now we've got the variant AND it's freezing cold and the middle of winter. People are not grasping the seriousness of the situation and the government certainly didn't which is why we're in this mess. Idiots going out and about for an afternoon out with the family and mixing households must have a death wish (if not for them then for others).

The stay home advice applies more than ever now.

It’s called de-sensitisation

People aren’t afraid anymore.

Lockdowns only work for short periods

@TableFlowerss

Lockdowns only work for short periods

The roads have been busy since the May bank holidays. We had 6-8 weeks of lockdown, that was it.

I expect cafes and restaurants will be closed son for a while because that's the only way the government can think of to realistically keep people off the streets and even then surely more people are ordering takeaways rather than grabbing coffees and mooching around, surely? There is just nothing else they can do because so many of the current restrictions and most of what people have suggested here are unenforceable. 'Scary' campaigns which started last night certainly won't make much difference.

@lockeddownandcrazy

Here's some sources for you

@lockeddownandcrazy

More

@MercyBooth

Time for unpaid carers to go on strike if they touch our support bubbles. And *@benedicto* no i wont be treated like a criminal. And the household i support bubble with does not have the internet.

Why are you tagging me? I fully agree with support bubbles and am in one myself . And haven't posted on this thread for hours.

I have a theory about why the traffic seems to have increased now. Could it be that people who used to car share are no longer doing so, and instead of 1 car carrying 2 people it is now 2 cars carrying 1 each. Also (and I know this is purely anecdotal), there may be those like my friend, who used to take public transport to work, but now feels safer not doing so and driving herself to work instead. It may explain some of the increased traffic at least.

@lockeddownandcrazy

Another one.

These are just a few examples. If only 20% of people affected by these issues were exempt (a very, very conservative estimate) - and bear in mind there will be many more conditions which confer exemption - that will easily top your figure of 0.1%. Again, I'll ask you for your source?

And yes, if somebody has suffered psychological harm for whatever reason they may well be exempt from wearing a seatbelt. See the link a pp posted.

Whether you like it or not, exemptions are lawful. For someone who is clearly a stickler for the rules, perhaps this is one you should also respect.

The roads have been busy since the May bank holidays. We had 6-8 weeks of lockdown, that was it

@User158340

Yes but for almost a year there have been some sort of sanctions. It’s never been ‘normal’.

There was a huge backlash as to why the government didn’t lockdown sooner when it first happened, but the reason was they knew that the public wouldn’t adhere to a strict lockdown for more than a few weeks.

They knew it wasn’t at its peak and were advised to hold back a few weeks before the full lockdown initially.

This is just a general observation, rather than personal opinion. People will comply to a degree but I just feel that the de-sensitisation process has begun. I don’t really know what the answer is, but that’s why the rates are so high.

We have had 30% of children in school this week.

One of the teachers has a very vulnerable child at home but still has to go into work. He does it because he's a good man and a great teacher. But I worry for him and his family.

Also, many of the staffs children have to attend too which just bumps the numbers up further.

@trappedsincesundaymorn

I have a theory about why the traffic seems to have increased now. Could it be that people who used to car share are no longer doing so, and instead of 1 car carrying 2 people it is now 2 cars carrying 1 each. Also (and I know this is purely anecdotal), there may be those like my friend, who used to take public transport to work, but now feels safer not doing so and driving herself to work instead. It may explain some of the increased traffic at least.

I think you’re right but I also think it’s because more companies/business are still open this time around, whereas they were closed previously.

@girlcrushonvillanelle

We have had 30% of children in school this week.

One of the teachers has a very vulnerable child at home but still has to go into work. He does it because he's a good man and a great teacher. But I worry for him and his family.

Also, many of the staffs children have to attend too which just bumps the numbers up further.

Does he not have a partner that can work whilst he stays at home and works from home? Or takes unpaid leave?

I’m sorry but I don’t believe that the head would expect him to go in to work physically when he has a vulnerable child at home. The point in this teacher strike was because it wasn’t safe for them, so he’d have a very good reason to refuse to go in....

I'm not sure exactly how current measures could be strengthened but I can think of a few very easy wins:

Stop click and collect of any old retail: My husband works in non essential retail. They are as busy as ever with an almost full team in place as customers are shopping via click and collect. Non of the items are remotely essential. How can the government on one hand tell us we should leave home only for a few reasons, but then make click and collect of any non essential retail items allowed?

Discourage visors: So many people are wearing visors instead of masks. In my local butchers and hairdressers all staff wear visors only. They think this is as effective as a mask. I accept that for some people it is all that they can tolerate, but that is not what is happening in many cases. This needs to be more widely publicised.

Ventilation: many many places aren't keeping doors open. I know it is cold but this has been proven to make an enormous difference. My local garage, post office, corner shop, chemist all have no windows and keep the door closed. I don't think this is an informed decision- they just don't know what a huge difference natural ventilation can make.

Register bubbles: ask people to register their bubble details online to help stop those abusing the system and having multiple bubbles.

Push home working: in lockdown one I had 15 customers who began to wfh for the first time ever. 13 of these have now gone back to their workplace- they all tell me they could work perfectly well from home but their employers want them back in the workplace.

Provide higher grade masks for some vital workers who are constantly at risk e.g. bus drivers, bin men (all together in one cab), driving instructors, care workers etc.. In fact I can't understand why these are still in such short supply, surely since March we could have ramped up production so they were more readily available?

@Chaotic45

I'm not sure exactly how current measures could be strengthened but I can think of a few very easy wins:

Stop click and collect of any old retail: My husband works in non essential retail. They are as busy as ever with an almost full team in place as customers are shopping via click and collect. Non of the items are remotely essential. How can the government on one hand tell us we should leave home only for a few reasons, but then make click and collect of any non essential retail items allowed?

Discourage visors: So many people are wearing visors instead of masks. In my local butchers and hairdressers all staff wear visors only. They think this is as effective as a mask. I accept that for some people it is all that they can tolerate, but that is not what is happening in many cases. This needs to be more widely publicised.

Ventilation: many many places aren't keeping doors open. I know it is cold but this has been proven to make an enormous difference. My local garage, post office, corner shop, chemist all have no windows and keep the door closed. I don't think this is an informed decision- they just don't know what a huge difference natural ventilation can make.

Register bubbles: ask people to register their bubble details online to help stop those abusing the system and having multiple bubbles.

Push home working: in lockdown one I had 15 customers who began to wfh for the first time ever. 13 of these have now gone back to their workplace- they all tell me they could work perfectly well from home but their employers want them back in the workplace.

Provide higher grade masks for some vital workers who are constantly at risk e.g. bus drivers, bin men (all together in one cab), driving instructors, care workers etc.. In fact I can't understand why these are still in such short supply, surely since March we could have ramped up production so they were more readily available?

Agree with most of this except Driving Instructors. That’s one job that shouldn’t be allowed at the moment. The contact is too close for something is isn’t essential. Government should step in and pay them though

@TableFlowerss

It’s called *de-sensitisation*

People aren’t afraid anymore.

I think that lots of people who were originally afraid now are no longer afraid- because we now have more data to show that young healthy people and children are very unlikely to become seriously ill.

I'm not saying this is right, but I can see that it's how people are thinking. They feel confident that they and their kids aren't at risk and so they aren't complying.

I know people who pulled their kids out or school during lockdown one and stopped working or shopping. They are now sending kids to school, working and breaking guidelines as they personally don't feel at risk.

@Bewareoftheblob

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

Health psychology professor....

@TableFlowerss I agree, although I also think that stopping driving instructors working would have meant that no one could learn to drive or take a test for a year.

That's fairly major if you're 18 and don't live near a town, or if you need to retest to continue driving.

I accept though that it's a job where it is pretty impossible to be safe.

@sitt but everyone is allowed a say over what they think for all other restrictions but not support bubbles?! It’s an example of how people bend the rules of suit themselves, thus provide opportunities for the virus to spread

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

I’ve noticed it’s the sub committees that call for stringent measures. They may even be more one track than Sage itself. We all know how to suppress the virus. The truck is how to balance the harm from doing so - which, as you get higher up gets more relevant.

Mind you the news led with it, which was depressing. I welcome the day we’re not told what we’re doing isn’t enough. When it’s bad enough already.

Truck - trick

[quote Chaotic45]@TableFlowerss I agree, although I also think that stopping driving instructors working would have meant that no one could learn to drive or take a test for a year.

That's fairly major if you're 18 and don't live near a town, or if you need to retest to continue driving.

I accept though that it's a job where it is pretty impossible to be safe. [/quote]
Driving instructors are not allowed to work and haven’t been for quite some time in T4 England. Now it’s a blanket ban.