Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

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Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

What? Banning over 80s from hospitals? That sounds ignorant and completely ageist.

I think we should entirely leave decisions about prioritising patients and managing elevated levels of risk to the most senior doctors treating them.

@maddiemookins16mum

Do the people who ‘can’t wear masks’ never go out on a really cold day then with a scarf covering their mouth and nose?

I can honestly say I’ve never done this. I can wear a mask though!

@Fragileandcomposed not everyone who potentially could die from covid will. That is ridiculous. There are scientists all over the world working on treatments are cure. Since the Spanish flu technology, medical science etc has moved on.

It’s about slowing the spread so that as the new treatments and cures come in the nhs can get it to those who need it. We already have jabs available that we didn’t have 6 months ago. Who knows what will be available in another few months.

It’s about slowing the spread so that as the new treatments and cures come in the nhs can get it to those who need it. We already have jabs available that we didn’t have 6 months ago. Who knows what will be available in another few months.

I read recently that a vaccination only requiring one dose is being tested which, if it's successful, would be a complete game changer

"No, what you are saying is that they have a disability or condition that - in their own opinion - impacts on them wearing masks. This is not the same as actually having one."

Which disabilities or conditions may mean that someone cannot wear a mask and if someone has one of those conditions/disabilities how would you prove whether or not that person can wear a mask.?

Masks work at slowing down transmission. So if you are on a bus for 10 minutes, and nobody has a mask if one infected person is on the bus you are more likely to catch it. If everyone had a mask on the transmission time would be longer - which in practice means overall transmission is less likely. But it's not magic. You can still get it even if everyone has a mask on - and of course if people wear their mask halfway down their chin, it is no use at all.

[quote MerciSeat]@lockeddownandcrazy

If they have a medical exemption then this should be provable - exactly the same as if they have a medical exemption for not wearing a seat belt - not a self declared dislike because of some tenuous connection to domestic violence

What a vile comment. Having been gagged while you're beaten is not a 'tenuous connection to domestic violence'. Not being able to wear a mask on those sorts of grounds is not a 'dislike' of wearing one.

And yes, I am saying that more than 0.1% of the population have a condition which makes them exempt.

I'm still waiting for your source for that figure, by the way. Genuinely interested to see it.[/quote]
So if you were tied up whilst the abuse took place then you would be exempt from wearing a seatbelt on the same grounds? No you would not. You get on a plane you put your seatbelt on, or choose not to get on it.

Where is your figure for more than 0.1% having a genuine grounds for exemption. Even if you were looking at 10 times that you would still be way off the number of people who are out shopping without masks - staff included.

Studies show that states that tried to stop the Spanish flu had as many deaths overall as those that didn’t.

No. The opposite generally - Philadelphia was the classic case of the city that didn't lock down fast enough and was very hard hit.

Although I'd agree that it was also important not to come out of lock down too quickly, as other cities made that mistake instead.

@maddiemookins16mum

Some people with certain disabilities struggle to tolerate some clothing. My son who is exempt from wearing a mask is still in a t-shirt in this cold weather, he wouldnt tolerate wearing a scarf, hat, sunglasses.

He has only been in a shop once since last March though.

teenagers have just as much need for solitary exercise

No doubt, but I don't see too many teenagers taking solitary exercise. The instant they're out they call friends who'll no doubt also claim they'll be alone, only to immediately form a group

We’re screwed either way now tbh. Studies show that states that tried to stop the Spanish flu had as many deaths overall as those that didn’t. Just took longer. That’ll be us. Everyone who is going to die from covid will still get it and die from covid. It’ll just take longer and in the meantime the economy tanks and everyone loses the will to live

I'm afraid I agree, Fragileandcomposed (which is actually a good username in the circumstances ) Usual caveats about the vaccine apply, and of course we had to try, but this is what some of us have been saying from the start

Nobody's pretending the results will look pretty, but maybe it's time to start accepting that, in the end, we may not actually be able to do much about a virus

I'm sorry but there is a time lag to all this and the Gov NEVER wait to see if the lockdown measure are working before they plunge us into the next tier. From Tier 2 to 4 to lockdown3 wasn't even 2 weeks so how can they expect to see the benefits especially when they keep telling us there is a lag on the illness and deaths??? They need to see it both ways.

@Pastanred

The issue with this - and I’ve said this throughout - is the legal mixing

The bubbles
The advice that ‘you can work if you absolutely can’t work from home’
Every business is milking that statement now they’re covid secure in theory

I worked from home 7 months from March but suddenly I’m full time and I’ve been given a key worker letter to use if stopped by police!

I’m not key worker but boss says I am now

I’m not alone

I don’t know a single person working from home

This creates false sense security

I work with 40+ people in an office building

All these people forced into work this time now need childcare etc

This ☝️

Susan Mitchie is also a member of the Communist Party. She is a behavioural psychologist who does research on 'behavioural manipulation.' Interesting.

I’ve been a member of the CPGB for my sins. If you are trying to imply that they favour authoritarianism on the terms of the capitalist state you are very much mistaken .

I have also studied behavioural theory (in conjunction with environmental policies). It’s not an area dominated by radicals in my experience.

The table of daily cases in each council (including rates per 100K) is updated with today's govt data release on the www.covidmessenger.com homepage for anyone ineterested.

do people realise the nh IS the economy. They aren’t two separate entities.

Yes, although I would argue differently as to the conclusion from this.

We need to contain the virus as aggressively as we can.

That will be good for the NHS but it will be good for the economy as well because we can't go on holiday or have business clients come to the UK if we are having 1-2k deaths per day in this pandemic. Particularly if we are perceived internationally as handling it really badly and as an unsafe place to visit.

We need to contain the virus and as we do that we need to plan re-opening safely and with full attention to scientific mitigations.

If we don't attend to that then we will have far more problems in the next year or 2. We need to learn from our mistakes of the past 10 months.

I just got an email from the local Botox and laser clinic to say they are open. Apparently they are 'health service'.

Likewise I know a lot of really not essential stuff is still being made & sold. This means factories open, people travelling etc.

"(the reasons for leaving your house don't include getting a takeaway"

Surely they come under buying food?

Statistical sense your comments about care home residents and over 80s are disgusting. Abhorrent.

[quote StatisticalSense]@annevonkleve
I am not denying that masks are partially effective in some settings. I am saying that they are not a replacement for social distancing as many treat them and that they do not make it acceptable to increase the amount of social mixing you are doing. People should consider wearing one when essentially meeting with others, including outside or with bubbles while they continue to be permitted, but they be using them as an excuse to have non essential mixing and are not necessary when out alone.[/quote]
Wearing masks with bubbles is ridiculous. I spend all weekend with my DP including lying next to him in bed we’re not going to wear masks

[quote StatisticalSense]@midgebabe
That relies on the assumption that old people with Covid should be prioritised over younger people with other conditions which doesn't need to hold. It is time for a complete ban on care home residents with Covid entering hospitals and for other over 80s with it to be redirected to other facilities where necessary for palliative care rather than overwhelming the NHS when there is little chance of survival in any case.[/quote]
Let’s just give everyone over 80 a lethal injection and have done with it, shall we? That’s one of the worst posts I’ve seen here and there’s some pretty stiff competition.

Wearing masks with bubbles is ridiculous. I spend all weekend with my DP including lying next to him in bed we’re not going to wear masks grin

If bubbles are treated as an extension of our household then surely we'd have to wear them all the time, including in our homes

I hope they do, i work an admin position in the construction industry ‘essential work apparently’ I understand emergency work needing to take place but lots of trades people working on big builds with little to non social distancing seems excessive and unnecessary

@PinkSparklyPussyCat

Wearing masks with bubbles is ridiculous. I spend all weekend with my DP including lying next to him in bed we’re not going to wear masks grin

If bubbles are treated as an extension of our household then surely we'd have to wear them all the time, including in our homes

Exactly. I can see some people liking the idea of face masks in your own home

Time for unpaid carers to go on strike if they touch our support bubbles. And @benedicto no i wont be treated like a criminal. And the household i support bubble with does not have the internet.

Traffic is very busy in my town, has been commented on a lot social media

Had a water leak and needed an emergency dash to B&Q. The cashier said I was the first person she had served with essential items only. I was in and out as quick as I could, but it did seem busy with families as apposed to single shoppers.

I am now on furlough, and very thankful for that.

I went out for my one walk as exercise today. Walked by the side of the park, it was very busy