Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

@MerciSeat

No one stops them because its not PC to challenge them

You think asking a rape victim to tell a complete stranger why she's not wearing a mask is 'PC'?

If people are genuinely mask exempt, then put something in place for food delivery for those people. I would say 75% of the people claiming exemption are lying. There should be security at every supermarket door declining entry to people without masks. If they want to kick off, get the police in

What about other areas where people need to wear masks - workplaces or on buses, for example? Do we deny exempt people from going to work, or using the bus to get there? Are you going to pay my bills for me?

So, what if that person, whoever they are doesn't want to wear a seatbelt in a car? Or a hard hat in their work place?

Simple - they dont get in the car or work on the building site. Exactly the same principle applied.

Yes and one of the biggest changes that is needed is breaking social chains of transmission rather than pretending the virus can't get through a breathable piece of fabric

If I breathe hard through my mask onto my hand I feel nothing. I think this argument that the masks don't work is nonsense.

Mind you, there was a comment on here a few days ago that if you could smell your neighbour's chips, you could get their germs. Does that mean that if I could smell someone's fart in my local indoor shopping centre the other day that I could also breathe in their germs, too?

@lockeddownandcrazy
Well actually those who genuinely can't wear a seatbelt can claim an exemption from having to do so can get in the car without wearing one. www.gov.uk/government/publications/medical-exemptions-from-compulsory-seat-belt-wearing

@lockeddownandcrazy it's not the same principle at all. It's illegal not to wear a seatbelt. It's not illegal for someone with a medical or psychological condition which exempts them from wearing a mask in a public place not to wear a mask. Exemptions are permitted and those who are exempt may go to work, access medical care, use public transport etc perfectly legally.

the reasons for leaving your house don't include getting a takeaway so there is no legal way to leave your house to obtain the takeaway).

One of the reasons listed for "when you can leave home" on the Gov website is "to buy things at shops or services". So if Starbucks is open, it's reasonable to think you can go there to buy things, is it not?

[quote StatisticalSense]@lockeddownandcrazy
Well actually those who genuinely can't wear a seatbelt can claim an exemption from having to do so can get in the car without wearing one. www.gov.uk/government/publications/medical-exemptions-from-compulsory-seat-belt-wearing[/quote]
Yes, they have to prove it under medical grounds, so it is genuine. They then have to be able to prove it if challenged. The exemptions are also very few.

Mask wearing on the same basis would mean 99.9% which would realistically be fine

Not the current self exemptions and no way to challenge people not wearing them.

@annevonkleve
I am not denying that masks are partially effective in some settings. I am saying that they are not a replacement for social distancing as many treat them and that they do not make it acceptable to increase the amount of social mixing you are doing. People should consider wearing one when essentially meeting with others, including outside or with bubbles while they continue to be permitted, but they be using them as an excuse to have non essential mixing and are not necessary when out alone.

There is no fear anymore. I was scared in March and stayed in. This time I could easily go to Costa and get a coffee without fear. I don't think they can create March kind of lockdown anymore. People are too relaxed.

@CKBJ

I posted this on another thread:

I think schools including nurseries should only offer places for NHS/Care/Police/Fire staff for the next 2-3weeks. As this would stop many people with children from working it would become a very harsh lockdown for 2-3weeks and therefore disrupt the covid transmission. Yes work places will suffer, including those that are critical, however with the way numbers are increasing it calls for drastic action. This should be known as Total Lockdown,we then revert back to the current lockdown and as soon as possible (End Feb/Mar) move the country back down the tier system.

And if workplaces are closed, who is paying the wages? What are people supposed to eat? Dust?

@DinosaurDigestive sales targets haven’t been adjusted so even if staff felt unwell they didn’t say because they were scared of not hitting them. Coupled in with staff bragging about still going on Tinder dates , not wearing masks, not social distancing, shaking hands with customers

100% the people who are 'out and about' generally and not sticking to the lockdown rules could drag this out months longer for the rest of us.

The amount of people on here before Xmas saying they were happy to break meeting rules over Xmas to see all of their family fully explains why the country is fucked at the moment. That's the fucking truth, whether we like it or not!

We're ALL over restrictions but we must understand that unless pretty much EVERYONE does as they're told we will ALL pay the price in longevity.

I know it really fucks people off when the Police get heavy handed but it genuinely looks like the only way this is going back under strict control now is by Police presence and hefty fines.

Without that we're all fucked for months.

[quote StatisticalSense]@annevonkleve
I am not denying that masks are partially effective in some settings. I am saying that they are not a replacement for social distancing as many treat them and that they do not make it acceptable to increase the amount of social mixing you are doing. People should consider wearing one when essentially meeting with others, including outside or with bubbles while they continue to be permitted, but they be using them as an excuse to have non essential mixing and are not necessary when out alone.[/quote]
You could say exactly the same for families living together, there would be much less transmission if they all wore a mask at home. It would have a bigger effect than occasional meeting in a social bubble or outdoor mixing. Transmission of the non mutated virus was 50% between partners sleeping in the same bed, so one of the very most risky things to do. Some things are just unreasonable

Masks everywhere maybe outside this time. Stop allowing mask exempt people to enter a shop and make special arrangements for them. I bet there aren’t that many of them in the end.

Sorry but by not wearing a mask you are putting everyone around you at risk.

House parties/family get togethers made illegal, parents if required can pay for the fines if it’s a teen. I bet that the parent will then ensure that their wayward teen doesn’t just do what the like.

I know it’s horrible but I am sick of hearing people say they are exempt and they just must do xxx.

Sorry, but this is serious.

Both Labour and Conservative governments have used behaviour change ('manipulation') theory in areas such as public health for decades

I know, OnlyTeaForMe, but it's interesting nevertheless to know when it's being done, and to remember the difference between basic facts and "persuasion"

Before Xmas, I was driving to the vets and passed queues of people waiting to get into a funfair

The oddest thing for me here is that they'd surely need council persmission to be there in the first place - and if the council gave it then they need their arses kicking
Though that said, I wouldn't put it past some of the people who run these things to just turn up and stick it there anyway

Stop whole families clogging up the supermarkets because the kids need a trip out and it’s not fair on them. We all need this to end.

We’re all fucked indefinitely either way.
What is happening longer term? We lockdown now. So what? Open back up and it’s back. My nhs nurse friend doesn’t believe the vaccine will work brilliantly having seen people vaccinated before Christmas coming in with covid now. She thinks the only way is to let it be or live in lockdown forever.
These are the options imo too. This is it I’m afraid - this is life now. We are talking years, not months, and it makes not much difference as to whether we meet someone for a walk in a park.

@lockeddownandcrazy

Given than 14 million people in the UK live with disabilities and a proportion of them will be exempt, and millions live with health conditions not classed as disabilities but will nevertheless affect ability to wear masks, and hundreds of thousands live with trauma as a result of rape or domestic violence/abuse, your assertion that only 0.1% of the population are exempt seems a little off. I'd be interested to see your source for this figure, can you supply it please? TIA

If the government really want to get the public on their side, they need to take a good, hard, look at themselves, and the media, and just tone down the drama: for some of us, the more they ramp things up, the less credible they are: the crying wolf effect.

We have had years and decades of being LIED TO by politicians - it's what they do. And when they get caught, they just shrug, and say "whatever, can we please move on", and carry on as before.

And the media have spend years and years whipping up storms in teacups about matters such as we're all going to die because of terrorists around every corner.

So when we see headlines such as "Deadly wave of Covid rips through London", "You're killing granny by going to the beach", "crowds FLOCKING to Windsor park" (insert manipulated stock photo), politicians and the media are sounding like the boy who cried wolf, and there's not much credibility left for when things are really bad. If they are really bad.

@Fragileandcomposed

We’re all fucked indefinitely either way. What is happening longer term? We lockdown now. So what? Open back up and it’s back. My nhs nurse friend doesn’t believe the vaccine will work brilliantly having seen people vaccinated before Christmas coming in with covid now. She thinks the only way is to let it be or live in lockdown forever. These are the options imo too. This is it I’m afraid - this is life now. We are talking years, not months, and it makes not much difference as to whether we meet someone for a walk in a park.

Presumably they've only had the first Covid vaccination though, so aren't protected?

“Stop allowing mask exempt people to enter a shop and make special arrangements for them.”

What would you do about a woman with a baby where the baby is not able to safely wear a mask, and they are buying essentials?

Do the people who ‘can’t wear masks’ never go out on a really cold day then with a scarf covering their mouth and nose?

No most never do maddiemookins16mum. Have you read any reasons why people can’t wear them? Many of those reasons stay with you, I can tell you.

@Bathroom12345
The wear masks where there is no real risk of transmission and it's all the fault of teenagers nonsense is getting boring. The parents crowding into play areas several times a week not wearing masks are being just as irresponsible as any teenager but according to people like you what they are doing is totally acceptable but a teenager being alone on a 4 acre field not wearing a mask would be unacceptable.

I think if case numbers don't start to drop there are two options really:

• reinstill the March fear as much as possible in the population
• tighten the rules and attempt better enforcement

People are tired. They've homeschooled their kids for months, suffered work pressure/potentially lost jobs, no Christmas, no holidays, little to look forward to - it's no wonder that when they find they're magically eligible for school places, or a coffee shop is open as they make their way to the same bloody playground for the hundredth time, they use that. Yes, even while reading that hospitals are overwhelmed.

Back in March I think more people adhered to the spirit of the lockdown rather than just the letter. Now there's much more of "Well, the government said it's allowed so..."

I have no idea what percentage of the population are supposedly complying with this lockdown, but from my own experience this lockdown is NOTHING like the one in March. I just went to the supermarket. No queue (thank goodness!), but sign by the door says 'Please shop alone unless you are unable' or something. Inside the store the number of family groups, couples, etc was astounding. Almost everyone was shopping with someone else, the lone shoppers were in a serious minority. Back in March people complied with this stuff, now they don't, and I'm in the SE where the mutant strain is pretty rampant. According to the Covid Zoe app we have >2000 cases locally.