Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

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Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

90% compliance during this lockdown. Really??!

@Pandemicpanic

It will take 3 weeks for this week s figs to show, so why stricter, this maybe working?

That’s what I don’t understand, know one knows if lockdowns working because it’s only been a week, the next few days/week will be from people mixing over Christmas, deaths that are happening now are from people that caught covid 3+ weeks ago, putting more measures in place now isn’t going to instantly reduce the numbers in hospital now. If lockdown is working it will be at least another 3 weeks until we see the numbers of deaths dropping.

it seems very variable. DH was shopping in the open air market with his mask on, but said there were very few people about. one woman (no mask) got into his space and he was a bit shirty with her, but otherwise no issues.

I have quite a few friends in Australia including two in Melbourne which had a really strict lockdown. The police fined people immediately and quite large amounts as far as I’m aware. Our liberal society won’t stand for this and it’s to our detriment ultimately.

“ Perhaps maybe a tough 2-3 week lockdown of everyone home except nhs , police and anything relating to food including home bargains etc”

Stuff like this just shows me that people have zero real understanding of how society functions

You think we are more Liberal than Australian 🤔

@Valkadin

I have quite a few friends in Australia including two in Melbourne which had a really strict lockdown. The police fined people immediately and quite large amounts as far as I’m aware. Our liberal society won’t stand for this and it’s to our detriment ultimately.

I'd say it was to our credit that we insist on being able to leave our houses. There is no way it's being spread in the great outdoors.

Susan Mitchie is also a member of the Communist Party. She is a behavioural psychologist who does research on 'behavioural manipulation'

Fascinating ...

California has some of the strictest lockdown and mask laws in the USA and is overrun with the virus

Bottom line, the ship has very much sailed. There’s a minority of people who are never going to fully comply. They’ve had enough, don’t trust the government and don’t see the link between their minor breaches and the overall bigger picture.

@HelloMissus

The last I heard a third of all transmissions was happening in hospital. Until we get that sorted - which by its very setting means we’re talking vulnerable people - worrying about wearing a mask in a field seems a bit pointless.

I can believe it. A relative of mine got covid (thankfully without incident) and she is pretty sure she got it in a hospital waiting room.

Where, for the record, you were supposed to go on your own if you could, and she was the only one who turned up alone and everyone else was in pairs. I very much doubt they all had disabilities and it wasn't the sort of clinic where you would receive bad news. My relative was ok, but what if she hadn't been - and all because they just will not do something by themselves.

All of you baying for blood and slagging off your neighbours and everyone else, I expect you have already contacted your MP/local police force, offering your services as a covid marshall, gathering evidence to prosecute said neighbours to reduce the virus in your area, doing practical things to help others and make things better... oh thought not.
Far easier to insult people anonymously from behind a keyboard. Well done, you are fantastic.

@Sitt

“ Perhaps maybe a tough 2-3 week lockdown of everyone home except nhs , police and anything relating to food including home bargains etc”

Stuff like this just shows me that people have zero real understanding of how society functions

What about schools - lots of NHS, police and shop workers who can't work from home need their children in school. What about bus/train drivers to take people who have to work to work? What about garages if cars/lorries break down. What about gas/electric/phone/water workers? What about petrol stations? What about tradespeople e.g. plumbers, electricians? What about people providing care for the vulnerable? What about people delivering supplies to supermarkets - what if they need to stop and use toilets/get a drink etc etc?

I'm sure this list is not exhaustive and it does go to show that society needs ALL of us to keep it going.

@Haggertyjane

it seems very variable. DH was shopping in the open air market with his mask on, but said there were very few people about. one woman (no mask) got into his space and he was a bit shirty with her, but otherwise no issues.

Your DH sounds lovely, getting 'shirty' with a woman who was not required to wear a mask anyway, being outdoors.

I'd be utterly ashamed of him if I were you.

Mostly of Chinese origin in my experience.

I’m not sure I can tell a Chinese person from someone else of far East Asian origin, but they mostly wear masks, as far as I can see that.

I very much doubt they all had disabilities

I am so, so tired of seeing this.

Even if all of them didn't, some of them may well have. Perhaps they'd informed the clinic staff. Perhaps you shouldn't judge.

anne most people in hospital are catching the virus from other patients and staff - not visitors/carers.

People are arriving without it and catching it during an inpatient stay.

@Lifeisabeach09
Yes and one of the biggest changes that is needed is breaking social chains of transmission rather than pretending the virus can't get through a breathable piece of fabric. This should mean no support bubbles unless you are living completely alone and no childcare bubbles. It should also mean the closure of play areas.

Lockdown is there to reduce transmission not totally stop it and yes it will work because there are less social interactions. So if you take schools 1in 6 schools has 30% or more of pupils in. That means 5in 6 schools have less than 30 % in thats a huge amount less interactions. If you count your own interactions this week compared to 2 weeks before Christmas is it less? For most people it will be a lot less. The aim is not to totally stop transmission as that is unachievable. It seems that most of Europe are experiencing the same increased viral levels as we are. One of the reasons we have more deaths is because we find healthcare services at a much lower level per capita.

@Purplethrow Exactly the same is happening here also and I know in other areas.

Ridiculous sale targets have been given out and expected to still reach them.

Many in sales are still going out mixing with large groups even though there are workers there who have health issues and vulnerable family members. Also some significantly older workers in the office also.

Also positive workers have not given out full and truthful details of work contacts due to what they have been told by work.

I've read about McDonald's doing similar on this thread or another with telling an employee to come in while waiting for results and same with number of showrooms.

anne most people in hospital are catching the virus from other patients and staff - not visitors/carers

The people in the waiting room were patients plus hangers on. Not visitors or carers. Basically they'd been told to arrive alone but they were too important.

I am so, so tired of seeing this

I know some disabilities are invisible, I am not stupid. But I don't believe an entire waiting room of patients had disabilities which meant that they could not wait alone to see the doctor. My relative has accompanied someone herself because she had dementia, so she helped her friend.

By your argument, everyone deserves a blue badge because everyone is disabled. They're not.

[quote StatisticalSense]@Lifeisabeach09
Yes and one of the biggest changes that is needed is breaking social chains of transmission rather than pretending the virus can't get through a breathable piece of fabric. This should mean no support bubbles unless you are living completely alone and no childcare bubbles. It should also mean the closure of play areas.[/quote]
The support bubble for babies under 1 can’t be a huge number of the total though? Other than that it’s only people living alone allowed.

So if you take schools 1in 6 schools has 30% or more of pupils in. That means 5in 6 schools have less than 30 % in

What have those percentages come from?

@Puzzledandpissedoff

Susan Mitchie is also a member of the Communist Party. She is a behavioural psychologist who does research on 'behavioural manipulation'

Fascinating ...

It's not as sinister as you're trying to make it sound. Both Labour and Conservative governments have used behaviour change ('manipulation') theory in areas such as public health for decades. I worked on some of the campaigns. Nudge theory/ social marketing are other names for it. Whether people like to believe it or not, populations respond in certain, predictable ways to messaging. It's the same principle that advertising uses.

It's why, for example, the Queen has let it be known that she and Prince Phillip have had the vaccination - the power of persuasion from an authority figure or a celebrity.

@Sitt

“ Perhaps maybe a tough 2-3 week lockdown of everyone home except nhs , police and anything relating to food including home bargains etc”

Stuff like this just shows me that people have zero real understanding of how society functions

Exactly, what about community carers? Electricians, plumbers, builders (that need to make sure we all have heating, electric and water)? Vets?

Anyone can argue that there jobs essential and many are or these jobs wouldn’t exist in the first place.