Further Restrictions 'Stricter than March' Needed

[Bewareoftheblob]

From the Telegraph today:

Sage advisers are calling for a lockdown tougher than the one seen in March as they argue the current restrictions do not go far enough.

Professor Susan Michie, a health psychology professor at University College London who sits on a Sage subcommittee, said more stringent action was needed.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme.

"It should definitely be tightened,” she said. "This is quite a lax lockdown because we’ve still got a lot of household contact, people go in and out of other’s houses. We should have stricter rather than a less strict lockdown than we had in March.

“You have this wide definition of critical workers and therefore you’ve got really busy public transport. There's also this new variant, and we have the winter season and the virus survives for longer in the cold.”

Link

Do you think they'll follow through with this? Reduce the amount of children in schools, ban support bubbles, heavier policing of people going about their daily lives?

If it was law to where masks outdoors then of course people will potentially remove them out in on woodland walks or in the fields etc. Difference is they would be more inclined to put it back on if the did meet someone and when in populated areas where it is needed.

I can't do this anymore.

I'm fucking tired sticking to the rules, and the rules getting tougher for those of us who stick to them and for so many just not giving a flying rat's arse about anything and no doubt that will continue.

People are losing livelihoods and all of us will be paying because someone can't be arsed to follow any rules.

I'm forever seeing people (when I say people I mean middle aged men) wearing masks under their noses in the supermarket.

In my experience is young people and builders, but of course other people have different experiences with this.

@ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia do we have evidence that there is widespread spreading caused outdoors, or is your sense that it is so enough to make it true ?

FWIW I do agree that if you were at a crowded outdoor market it makes sense to wear a mask, but not so much on a country walk or run and I feel it would make more sense to police the rules we actually have rather than inventing new ones that may not make much of a difference, but are definitely intrusive.

All these decisions are balancing acts for scientists to advise and government to dictate. I don't hear many scientists calling out for outdoor mask wearing, but if there are articles about this then perhaps you could link them.

I just don't get the resistance to maskwearing outside as if, we Brits, are any different from anyone else on this planet having to deal with this damn pandemic. Can we not look at other countries (Japan, for instance, I dare not say China) and take a leaf out of how they are dealing with this?!

Bit out of date (from July) but interesting news article:

www.cnbc.com/2020/07/15/most-brits-just-wont-wear-face-masks-heres-why.html

I'll get off my soapbox!!!

@ChardonnaysPetDragon I agree it’s frustrating and exhausting and the key workers who we all treasure and applaud are forced from the safety of their own homes with no choice or chance to keep themselves safe. It’s mask wearing and social distancing, it’s staying at home, the majority of people are capable of this and those who genuinely can’t we need to support.

@Meredithgrey1

But people are not wearing them inside - go in any supermarket and you will see loads of people with no mask or wrongly worn ones.

I see this a lot on mn and I don’t know where these people live but I can’t remember the last time I saw someone without a mask on, (or wearing it with their nose out) in a shop.

are you in the store for a full 8-9 hour shift?

If someone is mask exempt and cannot get food deliveries not letting them in shops means they would starve to death surely?
I seriously doubt that would ever happen. For some people, 'mask exempt' is a useful cop out, meaning they don't like wearing them. I suspect there are very few people who are genuinely unable to wear a mask for the short time it takes to go shopping.
Even those who are genuinely mask exempt would get a friend, a neighbour or an agency to shop for them. They certainly wouldn't starve to death.

The virus really ISN'T easily transmitted between two people walking 2 metres apart in the open air . . .

Agreed but people are shit at social distancing ( me included) even outside. I’ve lost times of the amount of couples who stop as soon as they enter or leave the shop doorway ( what is that about) and I’ve had to politely say “ excuse me” which they don’t hear because I’m a metre behind them. It’s just easier to get close say excuse me and walk on past quickly.

Too much bending and ignoring the guidance still going on.
People mixing going to shops three times a week for something to do, mums organising a play date outside as little so and so misses other little so and so, under the guise of exercise (mums standing around drinking coffee and kids hugging and mingling mums turning a blind eye), teenagers meeting up in woods or inside one another’s houses and parents turning a blind eye (as they can’t be expected to walk around in the cold all day or night), sharing non essential car journeys with others, people going in and out of each others houses (because its my X, Y or Z and no one is going to stop me), I only went to see A or B and she offered me a cup of tea etc.

Can one assume you are also regularly and accurately negative tested. As obviously you would not want to infect your household bubble of other people (vulnerable or not) within two metres would you? I mean perhaps you would not like the others unmasked near you or would you not mind either?

If I was in a bubble I wouldn't expect the other person to wear a mask any more than I expect DH to wear a mask and stay 2m away

@Xenia

If someone is mask exempt and cannot get food deliveries not letting them in shops means they would starve to death surely?

Now that's a proper lockdown.

I can hear the gnashing and salivating of the harsh lockdown fanatics already.

The last I heard a third of all transmissions was happening in hospital.
Until we get that sorted - which by its very setting means we’re talking vulnerable people - worrying about wearing a mask in a field seems a bit pointless.

You only have to look at local FB spotted pages.
Here’s this mornings.
‘where can I get helium balloons’
‘I urgently need new panels for my greenhouse’
‘Is Blenheim Palace playground open and is the cafe open’
‘I need a home valet for my car’
‘16 year old looking for dog walking company’.
All of these will involve interaction (even limited) with others, and ignore the ‘behave if you actually have the virus’ theory.

Before Xmas, I was driving to the vets and passed queues of people waiting to get into a funfair. I couldn't believe it. A certain type of person will ignore, or get round the rules regardless.

I'm really fed up because we're only going out for food and medicines and have been doing that since last March. None of us are vulnerable, I just want this thing brought under control for everyone's sake.

No amount of lockdown is going to work because of the covidiots, conspiracy theorists and Dave the cocky builder with the bloody mask under his nose.

While around 90 per cent of Britons are sticking to the rules there are also "more people out and about”, Prof Michie told the Today programme

That 90% sounds to me like a "throwaway phrase"; I'd be amazed if it's as high as that, but even if they could get it to such a figure I doubt very much that it could be raised

... not without causing even more chaos and community tensions

@Itisasecret Yes, you have to have courts, so court staff and judges are also key workers. There was a bit of doubt about lawyers last time around, but as legal representation is a fundamental human right fortunately it is now crystal clear that they are too. This is also the case for civil cases.

@HelloMissus

The last I heard a third of all transmissions was happening in hospital. Until we get that sorted - which by its very setting means we’re talking vulnerable people - worrying about wearing a mask in a field seems a bit pointless.

It's really not about wearing masks in fields. Haha. Although if the field is crowded and compact, it definitely would not be pointless. If the majority of people used their common sense, it wouldn't be an issue. For instance, one person may sensibly wear a mask in a crowded field but others wouldn't care, hence, the need for the nanny state to make such things law.

We aren't winning the war so we need to change our tactics.

@Funkypolar

Susan Mitchie is also a member of the Communist Party. She is a behavioural psychologist who does research on 'behavioural manipulation.' Interesting.

I’m glad I found your comment in this thread. Thank you for posting this.

I think they need to. University campus still open and we have letter saying we are key workers...not training any doctors at our campus by the way. Staff are therefore at work, some students are travelling to come in to access things like the library.

Children of these staff are accessing key worker places at school - it is a complete nonsense. Not in the spirit of lockdown and 'stay at home' unless you have essential things to do like collect medicine. More like what can the business get away with legally (whilst putting whole community at risk)?

It is necessary. The expanded definition of key workers is being totally exploited. Some schools have ridiculous numbers in. Many employers are taking the piss demanding staff come into the office to do jobs they can do as well at home.

Every teacher I know is moving heaven and earth to keep their own children at home and not taking up a key worker place even if they are on site all day every day, We have seen how this virus transmits in schools. At secondary level the uptake should be virtually nil at the minute. Too many people are taking the piss.

It will take 3 weeks for this week s figs to show, so why stricter, this maybe working?

Agree with @pleasefeedthecat ‘....No amount of lockdown is going to work because of the covidiots, conspiracy theorists and Dave the cocky builder with the bloody mask under his nose’.
Also Susan visiting her mums who lives with her brother because no one is going to stop her. Angela picking up little X and Y in the car to take them sledging and bring them back to hers through the back door for hot chocolate and turning a blind eye to Neil having a mate round to X Box and Mary visiting all her friends, relatives and neighbour doing shopping for them for something to do, thus seeing 40 plus people a week regardless of how many vulnerable kids she has contact with in her job in school, how many she comes close to in the shops and supermarkets and how many people she walks with per week and how many friends, family and neighbours she gets a little too close too for long chats etc.

It’s been suggested before about tougher lockdown but if they are going to do it do it now but some things really are hard to enforce.
Work from home unless you can’t , my db has worked throughout never at home classed as a key worker under the ‘financial ‘ Like banking he absolutely could wfh but 5 days a week he’s travelling into the city centre on public transport working in a Covid secure office apparently.
How many more are like that ?
Children in school because well parents have to work . Perhaps maybe a tough 2-3 week lockdown of everyone home except nhs , police and anything relating to food including home bargains etc then relax slightly so more people work but still lockdown like it is today that may have a more impact. And good god stop the international travel too .
The mixing households is the main problem but how do you enforce that ? .
These half hearted lockdowns just drag out . I do think takeaways and schools should stay open but I agree a few weeks of closing will make a difference to this pandemic.