How are the vulnerable still getting it in such large numbers?

[Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps]

Just that really, given the high death rates at the moment, indicating that the most at risk are still catching it despite us having known which groups are vulnerable for a long time now, how is this happening?
Where and how are vulnerable people still catching it? Maybe it’s my optimism but I would assume most (especially the over 70s who shouldn’t still be working) would be staying well out of harms way at home, with the hope they will get a vaccine fairly soon and have access to deliveries etc to minimise risk. I know it’s a rubbish way of life and this thread isn’t meant as accusatory or inflammatory but I just don’t understand? Perhaps it is to do with care homes/hospital transmission but I’ve not heard of this in the news for a while!

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - with case rates as high as they are now in the general community, short of the entire population dressing up like they are a nurse working in an intensive care unit to go anywhere, and only going anywhere if necessary to sustain life, the virus is going to keep spreading to the vulnerable for some time to come.

I am CEV and I'm very fortunate that my employers (supermarket) are paying me to shield at home. A lot of CEV are working age and are only offered SSP, if I was offered SSP I'd be working full time still as I couldn't afford to spend months at home on the pitiful SSP rates.
Sadly I know of quite a few who can't shield due to financial implications so they will be out in the community/workplace at risk or severe complications if they catch Covid

From school? Children bringing it home are still amongst the figures, especially after that ridiculous one-day this term. Or from parents working out and about?

From people working out and about, not parents!

@Walkaround that’s the kind of answer I wanted! And you make a good point

Looking at lots of the graphs cases are lowest in 70-79 year olds. I suspect they are following guidelines and buying everything on line (like my parents and in laws). People over 80 are far less likely to have computers and internet, they aren’t the baby boom generation so have less money and are more likely to go out shopping etc

And need hospital care/ home care

Perhaps you are picturing the over 80s in care homes as being safely tucked away . People in care homes who need support with washing, dressing , eating etc have a lot of close contact with carers . People who have families, children in school, partners at work, who travel on public transport and go shopping . Yes they wear PPE but it's not completely infallible . Presumably that's the reason why care home workers are amongst the first getting the vaccine .

There is also a worrying percentage of patients who have actually picked up Covid in hospital .

@mousehole
Good point about dementia. Lots of elderly with dementia won't remember or understand the masks, hand washing and social distancing. And when they have to go to hospital it's a nightmare as they get easily agitated and often like to wander round and fiddle with things.

Really, really hope your dad is OK.

I would think one of the reasons that older people go out shopping in person rather than ordering a delivery is that aside from the consideration of the technology, a lot of older people live alone and buy very small amounts of shopping so wouldn't meet the minimum delivery .

@shinynewapple2021 yes I know quite a few elderly people still going shopping (locally) a few times a week, they seem to prefer it so fair enough! I know it’s difficult to tell but does anyone know of many cases attributed to shops?

It’s very hard for the very vulnerable to properly isolate, for the reasons others have said.

I’m CEV (lung issues) and in March I took DD out of nursery 2 weeks before lockdown as per my specialist’s advice and DH worked from home. This was after a lot of persuading of his employer because some of his role can’t be done from home. Luckily they were quite quiet and the rest of the team were happy to go in. I was on the shielding list so didn’t leave home for 10 weeks (luckily able to wfh), got shopping deliveries (which we cleaned) and DH and DD went for limited walks.

This lockdown I’m shielding again and we’ve taken DD out of nursery again but DH has to go into work. He’s driving in at great expense because SD is absolutely impossible on public transport. His employer has good precautions in place but there’s still more of a risk now because he is leaving the home each day.

Don’t forget too that a lot of people in hospitals aren’t CEV but are in their 20s/ 30s/ 40s and whilst they might have an increased risk factor eg overweight, high BP, they are not those most people would think of as vulnerable. I think hospitals are increasingly seeing a lot of patients who on paper aren’t high risk for covid but are very ill.

The assumption that "vulnerable" means infirm and not leading a full life has caused so many problems this entire pandemic.

In reality millions of people in the vulnerable category have jobs and can't afford to take months off work unpaid (not everyone is eligible for furlough or financial support). Vulnerable people are just as likely to have kids as anyone else.

Even if they can afford to stay home, what about their partner/spouse? Or their kids? Some vulnerable people are young and live with their parents. Some are old and live with their adult children and grandchildren. To keep them safe, the entire family would need to shield and that's simply not practical.

kids in school, parents at work.

I think the incubation period is longer
I know this is anecdotal but my neighbour works in a school which closed due to lack of staff on 8th Dec.
Wanting to see her kids on Xmas day, the whole family isolated as a precaution- I mean they went nowhere. No walks, last delivery was 7th, food delivery few days before Xmas.
Xmas eve got symptoms (so family Xmas didn’t happen) and managed to get a test, got a positive result on Boxing Day.
16 days from contact (walked past infected staff member in corridor) to symptoms.

It is simply because people either forget, or ignore the basics. It has spread because enough people do not wash hands or sanitise frequently, do not keep their distance. It is a contact/droplet infection. Nutshell.

Plus airborne..

An elderly relative recovering from surgery caught it in hospital (London).

From work. People can’t live on ssp

My mum shielded for 6 months then caught it in hospital. A lot of vulnerable people will be catching it at work and from their families.

I'm CEV and had covid, I suspect from my DH's job.