How are the vulnerable still getting it in such large numbers?

[Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps]

Just that really, given the high death rates at the moment, indicating that the most at risk are still catching it despite us having known which groups are vulnerable for a long time now, how is this happening?
Where and how are vulnerable people still catching it? Maybe it’s my optimism but I would assume most (especially the over 70s who shouldn’t still be working) would be staying well out of harms way at home, with the hope they will get a vaccine fairly soon and have access to deliveries etc to minimise risk. I know it’s a rubbish way of life and this thread isn’t meant as accusatory or inflammatory but I just don’t understand? Perhaps it is to do with care homes/hospital transmission but I’ve not heard of this in the news for a while!

@VaTeLaverLesMains

Bagels*andBrie * We are in the same leaky boat...xx

It sucks doesn’t it.

My clinically vulnerable DP has taken the advice much more seriously than my clinically vulnerable (ie over 80) parents.

They (and a lot of their friends) have taken all sorts of "unnecessary" risks including going to church, multiple trips to shops and garden centres, deliberately misunderstanding / staying vague on the rules regarding bubbles, continuing to see high risk family members etc etc

Confirmed cases in some of my other older relatives (thankfully none of whom became seriously ill) have been through a visit to their surgery and a tradesman doing work in their home.

There are an awful lot of older people around who are not shielding / shutting themselves away through choice, a well as necessity.

I’m a wheelchair user. I haven’t been anywhere apart from medical appts and one trip to the pharmacy/wilko in months (since Sept I think). But I’ve just been informed that one of my carers has tested positive and I need to isolate.

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - petrol stations, buses, taxis, supermarkets, someone coming in to fix a broken boiler, regular check ups and treatments, carers coming in to provide intimate care. It’s more than enough mixing to catch covid. Then there are the working age parents who use grandparents for childcare, of course - with all the claims that children were “safe” and barely pass covid on. Then there’s the fact that it is truly bizarre that physically fit, younger people don’t have the mental resilience to remain isolated and feel their lives are being ruined by isolation, but they think “others” should be capable of completely isolating themselves without the same consequences for their mental health.

There is also the issue of people who do not know they have an underlying condition which will make them vulnerable. You only have to consider, for example, the large pool of undiagnosed hypertension and type 2 diabetes/prediabetes.

This, whole discussion shows why the Great Barrington Declaration could not work.

@Walkaround I don’t know any young people with the attitude you speak of! Most young people, I find, are completely adhering to guidance and have done since March, I think flippant generalisations are very unfair! And of course people rely on grandparents for childcare, again with the most vulnerable group being the over 80s I don’t imagine a vast majority have young grandchildren still at an age needing childcare (of course they may well do but wouldn’t imagine this as a key player in the spread of covid amongst the vulnerable)

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - I thought “young” people according to you were all the people under the age of 80 that you think aren’t dying of Covid, given your obsession with 80 somethings. I therefore think you are the one coming across as being flippant, and you only have to look at the thousands of threads on mumsnet to see a hardcore of people have bought into the concept that it is possible for the vulnerable to isolate so that everyone else can”get on with their lives.”

@Walkaround how bizarre I haven’t said any of that

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - and I haven’t mentioned “young” people, yet you bizarrely said I was being flippant about them. I referred to “younger” people - younger than the 80 somethings you bizarrely find it surprising are still catching covid.

It’s not just the vulnerable who are dying there are more and more cases of younger people.

@Walkaround what you say is to the point.

I read some of the threads in here and I can see why we're in the current mess.

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps Instead of keeping on & on about the awfulness of "old" people, why don't you go back upthread and have a look at the graphs that PrincessNutsNuts has posted? They show that the admission to hospital peaks with men 60-69, followed by men 50-59.

@Walkaround yes I think it is a flippant comment to say ‘younger’ people don’t have the mental resilience to stay at home, did I say I’m surprised younger people are getting Covid? I was asking how the most at risk group are getting it from? Not sure what you’re reading

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps

Also not for a minute saying it’s just the over 80s sadly dying, just it’s still the vast majority

It's about to be again.

I think we might be on course to repeat the 29,000 covid deaths in care home residents which happened in the first peak.

And of course the older and sicker patients will not get the ITU resources if younger fitter people need them.

Which is of course a factor in why they are more likely to die.

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - nobody has the mental resilience to remove themselves from the outside world entirely. You are being flippant to suggest otherwise.

@PrincessNutNuts I know it’s a scary prognosis

And if you accept that nobody can isolate themselves entirely, then why on earth are you surprised that 80 somethings are still dying of covid?

@Walkaround still can’t find where I suggested anyone should do that? I said I thought they might be taking more precautions but am in no position to judge what anyone else does, I was asking where everyone thinks it’s coming from bearing in mind how much everyone is so much more aware of risk factors and therefore his best to protect these people

I went to a business premise yesterday. The person working there had no mask

I said 'fair enough but you are risking your health and the health of your customers ' I won't get into a debate about mask wearing. Its been done to death. Behind the cash desk there were two other people who were also exempt. All within a foot of each other. This cash desk was not fully enclosed. The business premise (essential) is tiny with no ventilation. You wonder how its still spreading? .
My friends dad is very unwell. Daughter brought it home from work at a hospital. Is it so difficult to understand how its still spreading?

[quote QueenoftheAir]@Walkaround what you say is to the point.

I read some of the threads in here and I can see why we're in the current mess.

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps Instead of keeping on & on about the awfulness of "old" people, why don't you go back upthread and have a look at the graphs that PrincessNutsNuts has posted? They show that the admission to hospital peaks with men 60-69, followed by men 50-59.[/quote]
Here's my sobering graph.

Men in their forties are of a similar risk of being admitted to ITU as women a decade older.

And the most at risk are men aged 50-79.

Not sure when I’ve said old people are awful either getting ever more bizarre

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - basically, you just aren’t making sense, or aren’t thinking it through very carefully. The more vulnerable you are, the closer the contact you are likely to be obliged to have with others, in order to help you with your vulnerabilities. Close contact is what spreads the virus. The way to protect the vulnerable is vaccination and limiting the number of cases in the less vulnerable who are the ones largely responsible for spreading it to the vulnerable when they come into close contact with them.

@Walkaround I know this due to my line of work, I’m wondering why there isn’t enough put in place (PPE, testing etc) to prevent this transmission in the at risk groups as it is now a risk we know a lot about

My 83 MIL has shielded from loved ones, doesn't leave her bed , let s ask one her flat but does have 3 carer visits per day plus the district nurse 3 times a day to do her insulin (type 1). She has just been hospitalised with COVID. Her care team do a fantastic job but it is just so infectious.
She was a sitting duck

@twumptreets how awful, wishing you the best