How are the vulnerable still getting it in such large numbers?

[Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps]

Just that really, given the high death rates at the moment, indicating that the most at risk are still catching it despite us having known which groups are vulnerable for a long time now, how is this happening?
Where and how are vulnerable people still catching it? Maybe it’s my optimism but I would assume most (especially the over 70s who shouldn’t still be working) would be staying well out of harms way at home, with the hope they will get a vaccine fairly soon and have access to deliveries etc to minimise risk. I know it’s a rubbish way of life and this thread isn’t meant as accusatory or inflammatory but I just don’t understand? Perhaps it is to do with care homes/hospital transmission but I’ve not heard of this in the news for a while!

Deprivation.

(And a lot of the reasons already given.)

I was thinking that on news today, showed a care worker going into a nursing home and asking how many had it today. If it’s all from staff bringing it in then they need more proper mask that are fitted like hospitals not paper ones. If all it takes for me to breath out the side of my mask as I feed you and you have it.

Saw a nurse visiting a neighbour just a paper mask and plastic apron. I don’t see the point of the apron, it doesn’t cover your shoulders arms or top of chest. If covid lands on a droplet on your top then it “sinks” in. If it’s on a plastic apron which you flick as you take off hour later it’s not dry at all and much more contagious you would have thought.

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - don’t you know how many nurses, doctors and carers are still getting and passing on covid? Don’t you realise that, eg, to go to a hospital appointment you have to leave your home and come into contact with other people on the way there and back? Not to mention the legions of carers who are family members, because free social care does not grow on trees (and nor do self-contained flats for vulnerable people to hole up in on their own, sealed off from support).

This is what gets me about people who say they are going to make their own decisions about their own health. They are not. They are taking decisions on my life too. I may not have much time left of it, but id rather these people didn't decide for me when it's going to end.

This.

Together with the fact that many people are just not very good at assessing the risk they pose to other people.

And you only have to read the Derbyshire thread in here (or any number of other threads) to see the way people twist & turn to justify doing exactly what they want to do, and damn the consequences to anyone else.

1. it is rife
2. it is very infectious
3. people are not taking care/following guidance
4. this lockdown is partial (not as total as March)
5. shielding doesn't work, it's a myth

@Walkaround of course I know that, I guess perhaps naively I assumed that (with outpatients) the safety would be to the point that at least the majority wouldn’t be unlucky enough to get it, if so the benefit of a hospital appointment will surely be outweighed, I’ve not heard of mass outbreaks among this group

And also, no one wants to hear it, but you don't have to be Extremely Clinically Vulnerable, or over 80 to catch it, end up in ITU with it, or die of it.

The massive numbers of rally old folk in care homes who died in the first wave skew the average age. People of all ages spend weeks in hospital, really struggle in ITU and die of covid.

The most in danger of being admitted to intensive care are our husbands, fathers and grandads -or men between 50 and 79.

We'll be starting to see the effects of Christmas socialising now...two weeks after Christmas Day.

81 year old MIL is now self-isolating because, having been 'bubbling' with BIL and his family, 22 year old granddaughter still living at home has now caught Covid from the boyfriend she hadn't bothered telling the family about.

That's how it spreads to the vulnerable.

@relievedlady observational bias? You dont see the elderly that are holed up at home but there are tens of thousands of them.

Men aged 40- 49 have a similar likelihood of ending up in intensive care with covid as women aged 50- 59.

How old's your husband?

@Porcupineintherough yes and the tens of thousands of them that are staying at home are by far safer than the ones out bumbling around.

And that goes for all ages,not just older before anyone jumps on me

I also see younger age groups gathering together and not wearing masks etc however this thread asked about why the older more vulnerable age groups are getting it still so I made a comment based on my observations and experiences.

Well two weeks ago was Xmas day when we were allowed to gang out indoors with family...does that count towards this weeks figures?

And kids haven’t been in schools for three weeks now, so can this all be pinned on schools?

My DH is early 40s and obese. He's in a key with worker role. Not one that people would think of maybe but he's been going out to work all the way through.

His (public) employer had a massive death rate at the start not heard much lately. He personally knows 4 people who died. It's a huge org, these were people he'd actually worked with and knew though.

What can you do? Just get on with it I think.

@Nothingfeelsbetterthancrisps - as I say, how do you think someone gets to their outpatient’s appointment and back? What about clinically vulnerable people of school age or working age? What about household members of clinically vulnerable people? It’s bizarre how many people seem to think the “vulnerable” are this group of “others” that are better able to lock themselves away than anyone else.

And that’s before you get into the fact that nobody knows who is vulnerable to covid until it’s too late.

As others have said it's exactly 2 weeks after Christmas so the rates are not surprising.

My MIL is 89 and currently in hospital (thankfully no longer the main general hospital)

Apparently (according to MN) I am entitled to think that she should be vaccinated whilst actually in hospital and not on discharge as the current plan is.

Oh and now she hasn't the capacity to consent (delirium)

So a sitting duck for covid really (and anyone in the same position)

@Walkaround I’m absolutely not saying there are no high risk situations these people must find themselves in and I understand the awful situation working age vulnerable people found themselves in having to go into schools, what remains a fact is that the vast majority of deaths are occurring in the over 80s, I don’t believe these people are going to school or work? Is it all household transmission? Again it might just be my ignorance but I wasn’t aware of quite so many multigenerational households

Well yes, it is your ignorance.

@Walkaround so it’s predominantly multigenerational households?

The term 'vulnerable' is confusing though. The clinically vulnerable are expected to pretty much carry on as normal. It's the clinically extremely vulnerable who have been advised to shield, got priority for deliveries and told to not go to a place of work. The clinically vulnerable include the average 70+ people, perhaps with high blood pressure so they may well still be out and about. Younger clinically vulnerable people may well be working as normal doing jobs like teaching or in the NHS.

People who live with/care for clinically extremely vulnerable people are still required to go to work this time. (Last lockdown they were told to work from home/shield)
My Mum is a TA and still expected to go into primary school (nearly half the kids are still in as "key workers") despite my Dad currently being on chemotherapy for an aggressive brain tumour.
School won't let her work from home.
It's ridiculous and terrifying.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate good points, the working age ‘vulnerable’ are a group I really feel for, still so confused as to where the over 80s are getting it from in their masses!