Two Women fined for walking for Starbucks

[Superketchup]

What rule have they broken? I don’t understand. Two of them met - yes can meet one other person - they’d driven 5 miles - surely that’s ok?! - and they had a Starbucks each which the police said was a picnic?!
Why are they keeping takeaways open if it’s agaisnt the law to get one? I took my kids to the park, the coffee shop was open for takeaway. It was freezing. We got a hot chocolate each. I’m too scared to do so again!

The police should not even have given them a warning. There was no legal basis for the police to give them any kind of warning.

If people have a problem with that then write to your MP and ask them to add something to the legislation that makes it clear that you must remain within 3 miles of your home for exercise.

But don't happily accept a policeman abusing his authority and issuing fines which have no legal basis.

@Orf1abc

Ms Allen, who lives in Ashby-de-la-Zouch in Leicestershire, said: 'I genuinely thought someone had been murdered... my car was surrounded... one of them started reading my rights and I was looking at my friend thinking ''This must be a joke''.'

So they were sat in the car. They may not have travelled together, but she's clearly acknowledging they were in the car.

There are legitimate reports of police being overzealous, but the 'air hostess make up artist with anxiety' is an attention seeker.

I read that they surrounded her car as she parked not that they were sitting together in one car. SHe looked at her friend who was also arriving and parking her car

clearly my autocorrect refuses to believe you could be 'fined' in this situation that is 'fine'.

Me and my friend live 5 miles apart.

We can both meet to walk within the rules.

We could if we wanted get a take out coffee whilst walking.

Yet I can have contact to get a coffee but the 5 miles I'd drive in my car - alone - would be considered an issue

I'm more bothered they felt the need to go to Starbucks on the way instead of taking a flask - but that's purely based on me seeing that as an unnecessary trip rather than waking to local park and using local cafe at the facility your at.

It is one of these stories where the full facts are not available to comment either way. I would have thought it more appropriate to ask them to leave if they shouldn't have been there instead of issuing a fine.

@IntermittentParps

Ds is only yr6 before people suggest he walks 3 miles to his friend's house or catch two busses. I did those things at his age.

Driving 5 miles seems excessive in the context of the spirit of lockdown. I do wonder if other police forces are running scared now that Durham are investigating Cummings properly.

Wow, in the middle of a pandemic when you won't usually leave the house for any reason other than to see a friend for a socially distanced walk and sometimes you are too anxious to sleep at night because you can't go to school and see a friend any other way and you don't feel able to do a zoom call because it makes you really sad? Medal is in the post.

@Orf1abc

Ms Allen, who lives in Ashby-de-la-Zouch in Leicestershire, said: 'I genuinely thought someone had been murdered... my car was surrounded... one of them started reading my rights and I was looking at my friend thinking ''This must be a joke''.'

So they were sat in the car. They may not have travelled together, but she's clearly acknowledging they were in the car.

There are legitimate reports of police being overzealous, but the 'air hostess make up artist with anxiety' is an attention seeker.

If you read the full article the car was surrounded, she then got out of the car, the the police started to speak to her. He friend had arrived in her own car and parked 2 spaces away. Presumably she looked across at her friend who was either still in her own car or standing next to it.

You are supposed to stay in your local area, even for exercise.

I reckon the real problem is that the women are from Essex and drove >100 miles for exercise

What exercise looks like is open to interpretation too, and that seems unfair. Lots of people get their normal daily exercise walking, and it's freezing outside this week so carrying a hot drink might make the difference between getting out for some fresh air and not bothering. It's ridiculous if you can't exercise unless you're jogging along in sports gear with a bottle of water.

Are Derbyshire and Leicestershire different counties? I think in Scotland, at least, its against law to travel outwith your county or council area.

They had gone from Leics to Derbys tho. Guidelines are to stay in your local area. I wouldn’t do it at the moment.

[quote Chambored]@Meredithgrey1
No the law won’t say that, because it’s ambiguous - “should”
Which is why we’re in the mess we’re in.
Ambiguity leads to people being able to interpret the laws as they see fit, not use common sense and bend any rules to their own purpose. Hence why we’re fucked.
If we had a PM who made firm decisions and passed laws that actually said Do not do this etc..., yes it might be deemed draconian for a time, but at least we might have got a handle on this quicker, rather than being on lockdown 3, with ever increasing death rates.[/quote]
I agree with you that the law should probably be less ambiguous in some areas. But it isn’t, and so (in my opinion anyway) the idea of police interpreting it themselves is separate to covid and just something I would generally be against. Police should enforce the laws as written, and anyone unhappy with the laws should take it up with MPs, not police.
Obviously in this specific case, I don’t know what the women were doing that led to the fine, but generally speaking, I’d prefer police didn’t say things like “it’s against the spirit”.
Tax dodging companies are also against the spirit of the law, but the fact they aren’t against the letter of the law means they get away with it.

An attention-seeker? They were fined by the police for no reason. Reporting that is not attention-seeking.

Taking a bottle of water with you on a walk wouldn't be classed as a picnic, and who wants cold water in this weather? Hot drinks were perfectly reasonable, and so was driving 5 miles for a socially-distanced walk round a deserted reservoir.

The police were totally over the top on this occasion.

@WitchesBritchesPumpkinPants

My parents are probably more risk to me with 4 carers a day in 7 days a week in addition to me!

Tbf the giving her a lift is a legit point. I took a flask and two mugs so no sharing or close proximity.

Essentials aren’t mentioned. You’re allowed to leave your house to obtain services from a business that is allowed to remain open. Like a coffee shop offering takeaway.
You could (probably quite reasonably) argue that coffee shops should be forced to close, but they haven’t been, and therefore as a business that is allowed to stay open, it is a reasonable reason to leave you house.

Exactly. It's the same for my occasional visit to Home Bargains, which has some on here frothing at the mouth and accusing me of murdering their 123 year old Nan!

I mean .... what constitutes essential? I leave the house to work, shop and exercise. But:

• I don't actually need to work. I could retire

• I could do all my shopping online and give Home Bargains a miss

• I could exercise in the house

So, I could stay indoors. Indefinitely. And what sort of a fucking existence would that be?

@Joeblack066

They had gone from Leics to Derbys tho. Guidelines are to stay in your local area. I wouldn’t do it at the moment.

So if you live, say, a mile from the county border, you have to stay in your county, even if that means doing an even longer journey to get to where you need to go?

Bonkers.

There is no law that states you can only travel a certain distance to go for exercise. Guidelines are not law.

To be fair to police - 5 miles is quite a way! The nearest place I'd go and meet someone (and even then I'd judge that as being fairly far) is approx 3.2 miles and I'd walk there and probably get a coffee.

It’s crazy. It is scary actually. I don’t feel these people are the people who are deliberately breaking rules repeatedly. Surely the police could have just advised they meet somewhere nearer.
Takeaways are open. Are we meant to be too scared to use them? I don’t understand why they are open in parks but if I get a drink and walk with it I could then be fined?
Also ‘spirit of lockdown’ I don’t feel should hold up in law. I mean 10 miles isn’t very far. If they want to uphold these rules they need to make a set distance. It’s open to interpretation. My mum came and met me for a walk. We both probably drove about 6 miles. Thing is - I just can’t see her if we don’t. I don’t understand lots of people aren’t seeing their parents at all because of distance or shielding but I’m fortunate that she isn’t that far away. We just walked around some open land. Didn’t actually encounter anyone else. Was it not in the spirit of lockdown? Is it now going to leave us potentially with a £200 fine? I don’t have any friends nearer than about 5 or 6 miles to be honest.

Stay in your local area and only go out to exercise does not mean travel to a different county, via starbucks, to meet a friend for a chat.

I have no idea if the police were right or not, but I don't really care, I'm too sick of people pulling this shit.

Do we actually want to ever get out of lockdown or not?

Since when has the ‘spirit of guidelines’ been law.

Appeal fine on basis no law has been broken.

@CleverCatty

To be fair to police - 5 miles is quite a way! The nearest place I'd go and meet someone (and even then I'd judge that as being fairly far) is approx 3.2 miles and I'd walk there and probably get a coffee.

Depends where you live.

I know lots of people who live 20+ miles from their nearest supermarket, for example. They'd be a bit fucked if they could only travel 5 miles.

@atswim2birds

! I mean really, this should be about science and clear laws and rational decisions. Where the F does "the spirit" come into it?!?

It's about understanding nuance, grey areas, and not taking the piss doing things which are unhelpful even if you are technically allowed to.
How are people so confused?

I'm not at all confused, thanks for your concern. I am very clear on what the law currently states I can and can't do, and I will follow the law as I am a law abiding citizen. The law is definitely not about "nuance and grey areas" as I'm sure many a high court judge will tell you. And who are you to judge whether something is or isn't helpful? The government have set the law, having listened to the advice of many, many scientists. If something is "technically allowed" it is allowed. End of. It doesn't matter whether you consider it helpful or not. They were outside, going for a walk, maintaining social distance. They were putting no one at risk. One of them admitted they struggled with anxiety and found walking here beneficial. I am an NHS clinician working in mental health. You have no idea the horrors I have dealt with in the last 12 months. I would argue that anything a person can do to look after their mental health, within the law and safely, is actually extremely helpful right now.

@DumplingsAndStew

Are Derbyshire and Leicestershire different counties? I think in Scotland, at least, its against law to travel outwith your county or council area.

d'oh of course they are.

Leicester had one of the highest rates of Covid 19 before too. Not sure about now.

@atswim2birds

It's not hard. Stay in your house unless you have a reasonable excuse to leave. A starbucks with your mate is not a reasonable excuse.

That simple.

They were walking with a Starbucks in their hands. Walking is exercise. It's cold in Derbyshire, there's nothing wrong with having a hot drink on a walk, I often take a flask but that doesn't make it a picnic.