Two Women fined for walking for Starbucks

[Superketchup]

What rule have they broken? I don’t understand. Two of them met - yes can meet one other person - they’d driven 5 miles - surely that’s ok?! - and they had a Starbucks each which the police said was a picnic?!
Why are they keeping takeaways open if it’s agaisnt the law to get one? I took my kids to the park, the coffee shop was open for takeaway. It was freezing. We got a hot chocolate each. I’m too scared to do so again!

I queried this, i was told... it was because they drove to an area rather than staying local, the hospitals near them are full of covids, so if they had crashed/ had an accident there was no A and E dept open, it was during the snowy/icy spell we just had.

Today 20:11 RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Where’s this then? So I commented on a case about which I know nothing?
I’ll get my coat

😀 you funny!

We need funny“

You flatter me. Drunk is probably more accurate 😬

We like drunk 😩😩😩

Doin’ stupid dry january 😒

Local area is not defined beyond the words town, city. It has not been defined by distance. At all.
Where there is ambiguity in the law the law always falls down on the side of the defendant.
This fine cannot be forced in UK law.
Unless they change the law to specifically name distance/ method of travel they cannot fine people for this.
So one of two things will happen:
Thousands of pounds wasted overturning fines for actions that do not break the law.
A law change that can prosecute people retroactively.
The latter being rather scary and symbolic of our loss of a civilized, fair society.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer

Why, babe? You’ve got at least ‘til Autumn to get your shit together. No-one will know. If ever there was a time to go with the flow.

“Why, babe? You’ve got at least ‘til Autumn to get your shit together.”

Addendum: because the Govt. says so. So it must be true.

Oh well if the government say so...then it must be true

Those fuckers are driving me to drink 😀

I bloody love your Rufus🍷you’re my bestest friend.
Hic.
I bloody love you. Did I tell you?

So, those that believe they are clever and are calling for rigid and granular rules, it should be clear 10 months on that this type of framework is not workable (think mask exemptions or people who have their nearest supermarket 10 miles away)

I'm not calling for rigid or granular rules, I'm calling for the law to be obeyed in the normal way. That includes the police not trying to fine people for things that are not against the law. That's not trying to be clever, that is the way this country works in all respects, not just in relation to the pandemic. The day we start saying the police can start enforcing laws that don't exist is the day we start the descent into becoming a police state.

@Arobase

"I'm not calling for rigid or granular rules, I'm calling for the law to be obeyed in the normal way."

But it is being obeyed. That's the point. The PCC for Derbyshire has this morning come out and said the force were "over zealous". No they were not. They were actively behaving in an unlawful manner and trying to enforce laws that don't exist. The force know full well why they don't exist and that's because MPs warned the government they would in no way entertain stricter laws and thus it was put in a "should" or guidance. This is NOT the law and it is resulting in tickets being issues in the hope people just lay them. Over 90% of tickets reviewed are overturned by the Crown Prosecution Service and in one case they had to go to court to overturn a conviction for a prosecution that was based on a law that didn't exist!!

5 miles from home is definitely local. A flask of tea is not a picnic.

If the government wants to tighten up..then fine do it BUT make it an act of Parliament and stop trying to get things enforced by the back door as all it does is really impact on police community relations

Oh and in some areas, travelling 5 miles is sensible given how rammed the footpaths are around us (once again)

@DenisetheMenace

I bloody love your Rufus🍷you’re my bestest friend. Hic. I bloody love you. Did I tell you?

That sounds awfully familiar...I think i might know you 😳

😀

5 miles from home is definitely local.

Is it?

@notimagain

5 miles from home is definitely local.

Is it?

I don’t know what the definition of local is, it appears to vary

Whats yours?

Or rather what do you think it should be in the current circumstances, cos i guess thats a variable as well

*I don’t know what the definition of local is, it appears to vary

Whats yours?*

Well mine isn't relevant to the UK but when we've been under lockdown where I live it's been whatever is written on the attestation I needed to fill in and carry every time left the house specifically for exercise. FWIW it's usually been no more than 1KM radius from place of residence.

This "local" argument is going to run and run until either the politicians codify it, which they seem scared to do, or they take the expression "local" out of the guidance...as it stands it's pretty pointless and the term is open to abuse by both the police and those who want to test the meaning of the word.

The word local has never been defined and in reality cannot be so can't be enforced unless wholly unreasonable. For example I live on a county boundary a d the local force have said it is not local to cross the boundary....I live about 100 metres from the boundary a d footpaths cross it. That is pretty local to me lol.

Ironically one national newspaper this morning was giving out advice to a person that she couldn't form a support bubble with someone as they were 100 miles away and it wasn't "local". Utter nonsense. The word local isn't even relevant to support bubbles so once again the advice being bent. My boss travels to see his extremely elderly mother 70 odd miles away as he is her support bubble. Shops for her and does whatever she needs help with. Apparently as that isn't local she should be left to starve.

I utterly despair at the nonsense being peddled and that the police are utterly unable to actually READ the legislation.

@notimagain

*I don’t know what the definition of local is, it appears to vary

Whats yours?*

Well mine isn't relevant to the UK but when we've been under lockdown where I live it's been whatever is written on the attestation I needed to fill in and carry every time left the house specifically for exercise. FWIW it's usually been no more than 1KM radius from place of residence.

This "local" argument is going to run and run until either the politicians codify it, which they seem scared to do, or they take the expression "local" out of the guidance...as it stands it's pretty pointless and the term is open to abuse by both the police and those who want to test the meaning of the word.

Oh well then i agree with you 🙂

I think local is a bit wishy washy

I live in a village, the nearest small town is less than 2 miles but doesn’t have many high street style shops, the town my village comes under is more like 3/4 as is the outdoor shopping area (same sort of high street shops) so I’d consider all those places local...or i did pre covid!

I mentioned it earlier, but "local" here in Germany is defined as a 15km radius.

As it's not defined in the UK, people are going to interpret it as the normal meaning of "local", which is very flexible. When you're urged to "buy local", that can cover a pretty large area.

I think local is a bit wishy washy. I live in a village, the nearest small town is less than 2 miles but doesn’t have many high street style shops, the town my village comes under is more like 3/4 as is the outdoor shopping area (same sort of high street shops)

The system we had/probably will have again was "wishy washy" when it came to shopping, so it was regarded as OK to drive to the nearest large supermarket, even if that was 25-35 km away..

OTOH leaving the house for exercise was nailed down as described, and if drawing range rings around your house on Google Earth was to much bother there was fancy smartphone app that gave you a nice picture of where your limit ended..I also gather from reports from other people that the "flics" were quite capable of reading maps/using GPS so argument was futile..

notimagain

When i read the 5 mile thing ...on here, not official....i checked on google maps how far it was, i was quite surprised at what it covered

At least for here...I appreciate that in the middle of nowhere it wouldn’t cover so much

A big chunk of my circle is sea though

Local is not in the regulations. So the only way they could stop me driving from London to my native northumberland for a walk would be the part of teh regulations saying you can go out if "reasonably necessary". I suspect even a judge would say that long a drive is not reasonably necessary.

Putting my other hat on as someone fed up with so many people ignoring signs and walking around this private estate (there are no gates or barriers but lots of signs these trespassers choose to ignore)..... yesterday I saw 6 cars parked up on the public road by the estate so clearly people are driving for their walk up here. May be I can print new signs - "Have you driven for your daily walk and chosen to walk on private roads in breach of the rules clearly started on the signs? Shame on you. Start your walk without using the car and walk from your own front door on public land only. "

@Xenia
May be I can print new signs - "Have you driven for your daily walk and chosen to walk on private roads in breach of the rules clearly started on the signs? Shame on you. Start your walk without using the car and walk from your own front door on public land only. "

Use an old lipstick to write this on the drivers window. They will easily get it off with anti bac and tissues but will be annoying. And if they don't have the means to get it off then they will have to drive home with the window down.

@Sunflowergirl, you misread my post. My point was that it was the police who were not obeying the law.

@Arobase ...point noted.

Ironically this has just been published...seems the police are of the same view

“*Police Officers are being made scapegoats for poor policy and law writing when it comes to keeping people safe from Covid-19"

West Yorkshire Police Federation Chairman Brian Booth on the challenges Lockdown 3 is bringing to policing and the reality of what officers are facing as they work to keep people safe from Covid-19.

“My colleagues are between a rock and a hard place,” said Brian. “With a public which have polar opinions in regard to the Covid regulations. On one side you have those who think the regulations should not apply to them and will seek every opportunity twist the rules to suit their personal benefit, then you have those who are crying out for a strong enforcement line, because they are in fear of Covid spreading.

“Walking a tightrope between maintaining public confidence and upholding the law is not made easy with poor guidance.

“At the end of the first lockdown I highlighted the difficulties officers were facing when it came down to trying to help Police the pandemic with such woolly laws - roll on six months and we are still in the same position.

“Police Officers are being made scapegoats for poor policy and law writing. Make it clear for the public, for example - If it is desired that exercise be limited to local, then clearly state in law what local is.

“Do not insert it into guidance that has no legal standing.
*

Today 08:27 RufustheSniggeringReindeer

That sounds awfully familiar...I think i might know you 😳

😀

Sadly, no. I do not know anyone who would entertain dry January 🤪