Will nurseries close now?

[Bathsheba1]

I have seen a increase in news reports about unison calling for early years to close, petitions, SAGE advice that it’s not the right thing to do keeping them open for all.

Do we think they will shut soon to protect the staff?

I expect plenty of outbreaks in nursery schools this month, and next. It's one of the few places humans still mix closely in significant numbers.

(But I thought schools wouldn't stay open long after half term and they didn't close them until January.)

Not sure why some are saying it won't happen at any cost. It's happened here in Scotland and where we are at least being classed as a keyworker kid means both parents keyworkers (if a 2 parent family) AND neither able to wfh.

The idea of being able to effectively wfh while making sure my 1 year old doesn't kill himself is frankly laughable.

@pinkpip100
Out of interest what location are you in? Most of the school nurseries I hear about (•London) are shut. For me it’s not an issue (kids only go 3 hours and childminder rest of time while I work) but I would have liked the school to explain the rational behind the decision given that they have explicitly said they can remain open.

If our nursery closes I won't be able to work. Not even 1 hour per day. My 2DCs are 1 and 3. Both very active, demanding, mobile, need to be stimulated, talked to, played with, fed, etc.
My job is full time and very demanding. I can't do both things at once.
I am project managing a task that is due in March. If nurseries close I see that as it for the project, for me at work, basically.
Colleagues are sympathetic to my concerns about it closing but most of them don't have children and seem to be saying that I should be able to work with my kids in the background.
My daughter would injure herself if left alone

@seeingdots
And that’s causing grandparents over the age of 70 to be looking after kids which is not a very good idea, but like in my extended family mother out at work (hospital key worker), father at home working but also much higher paid and did his job with the child last time for 5 MONTHS as that’s how long nursery was shut. Worried about his job now so my parents, one of whom is over 70 are looking after child.

These threads are so unhelpful. Ultimately, the government will do whatever the hell they want to do, and it won't necessarily be rational.

I desperately hope they stay open - my 18 month old won't even let me shoot of a text let alone an email. I know this is true of so many parents. Livelihoods will be destroyed, especially freelancers and women.

There are logical reasons to keep them over (data suggests transmission is low, very few outbreaks linked to EY, parents will turn to grandparents thus mixing with vulnerable, private nurseries will close without the money from full numbers of children and so key workers will struggle) but there are equally logical reasons to shut them, which are obvious.

I don't see anywhere near as much debate over garden centers or the housing market. These threads just make parents extremely anxious about how we'll cope - with the reality being many won't.

@seeingdots I honestly think the attitude in Scotland is tantamount to allowing neglect of children. You can both be key workers so unable to be furloughed and in critical positions but because you wfh have to look after your child too?! I really feel for you.

I expect plenty of outbreaks in nursery schools this month, and next. It's one of the few places humans still mix closely in significant numbers

Why? This has not happened previously.

Probably. Because the government just caves to pressure. Even though the staff are almost all very young and won’t be vaccinated for ages.

@notalwaysalondoner

Probably. Because the government just caves to pressure. Even though the staff are almost all very young and won’t be vaccinated for ages.

Pressure from where?

Unions were bolstered by Headteachers

But a private company doesn’t want this. It’ll likely end their business, they want it as much as cafes and hairdressers - which is not at all.

Huge amounts of mixing are still going on in schools. Many still have 20-30 in each small classroom and so transmission unlikely to be reduced at that end.

Maybe the same will be applied to nurseries; KW and V children only, huge widening of these definitions and thus they are effectively ‘closed’ to 20-30% of their kids.

@Backbee

I expect plenty of outbreaks in nursery schools this month, and next. It's one of the few places humans still mix closely in significant numbers

Why? This has not happened previously.

It'll potentially look like more, for instance as a proportion of outbreaks in educational settings, but I can't see why there actually would be more outbreaks as an absolute number now, especially since a lot of nursery aged children did have siblings in primary school who are now not going. We've suddenly got a lot lower risk as a family because DH is now teaching remotely rather than travelling to teach in a secondary school by train every day so I guess DS's nursery staff are slightly safer than they were just because of that; nursery is now our only contact outside the house so it's our biggest risk factor to contract it but we're very low risk to bring it in. Being one of the few things open is obviously going to make nursery a bigger proportion of transmission, but if transmission is falling that should still leave nursery safer for staff than it was before.

I wish the union/alliance would a) stop asking the government to prove a negative - that nurseries are safe, and b) stop calling for key worker/vulnerable kids only. They did this last time, nearly all the nurseries closed and crucial workers such as dr's couldn't work their full hours. It was reported on at the time, and they should know this.

If you pay for a nursery and they close, you can refuse to pay and use that money to hire someone to help with young children in your house. There are websites like sitters.co.U.K. - cost about 8 pounds an hour and there should be qualified childcarers on there looking for jobs. It is not safe to leave young children unattended.

I don't think I've ever seen a thread with so much assumption and quite frankly misinformation.

Transmission is low in the EY settings because nurseries have taken great care to ensure bubbles and hygiene standards have helped to prevent it. In the last 12 months our nursery has had just one case, which originated from the parents work, and because of the bubbles being operated, was not passed on to any other child.

Now, sadly they have made the decision to close to protect the mostly older staff (Most 50+) and we completely understand why. We've had to find alternative childcare because forcing parents with technically demanding jobs, working from.home with a pre-schooler is comparable to state sponsored child neglect and completely impossible.

I'm still laughing at the poster who tried to state a primary school child is the same as a toddler.

I have the task of entertaining a 2 year old, homeschooling a primary school child (that can't work independently yet, as too young) and working full time. DH and I aren't keyworkers, but our workloads have increased and we're told to "just be flexible" to get the job done (our employers won't furlough). DH and I split hours 50:50, but it's never enough to get everything done. I honestly cry each night and think that eventually one of us might have to take unpaid leave as we can't cope like this.

To add, we're in Scotland so nurseries all shut unless keyworker or vulnerable.

Nightmare Paisley

I don’t know what Sturgeon was thinking but the strain on families with young children is immense

[quote Waterdropsdown]@pinkpip100
Out of interest what location are you in? Most of the school nurseries I hear about (•London) are shut. For me it’s not an issue (kids only go 3 hours and childminder rest of time while I work) but I would have liked the school to explain the rational behind the decision given that they have explicitly said they can remain open.[/quote]
West Midlands. I've heard that lots of maintained settings (school nurseries & nursery schools) in London have moved to KWV only, but apparently the govt has started putting pressure on head teachers to open them up to all children. In all honesty, if they do that then why not open Reception classes too? As I said previously, there is very little difference and certainly I can't see why nursery classes are any 'safer' to have open - and even less so nursery schools, which tend to have more children in at any one time. (Personally I think both should be KWV only, as the quickest way out of this is to absolutely minimise routes of transmission; and there certainly have been outbreaks in early years settings, despite what people seem to think on here).

I'm debating on sending my 3 year old back next week depending on the local cases.. Hoping they decrease. I don't think our ds would take it into pre school, but he might catch it there I guess. Its a rural pre school and I'd imagine alot of parents are working from home that use it. I was going to keep him off but he keeps asking when he is going to go and staying home while I home school 2 primary aged children alongside our baby needing naps etc. Means our 3 year old is getting not alot of attention and far too much TV time. I'm trying to weigh up what's worse, catching covid and probably being OK... Or missing out on pre school, getting hardly any exercise and socialising etc. But then I worry about the lovely workers that are there and don't want to put them at risk, but I am so sad for him. We can explain to our older children and do school work at home, just, but we can't bring the pre school experience to home

I'm so sorry @paisleydot - I'm terrified of this. on your family.

Don't get me wrong the Tories have totally screwed this whole thing up but I do feel that the Scottish government have been too extreme at times. Cases are comparably low and peoples well being and mental health deserves consideration.

Yes a lot of people sharing petetion on facebook that work in nurseries

I’m in Scotland. Husband and I both WFH and juggling our childcare. Can assure you all our child is not neglected. What appalling language to use!

Presumably the reason the decision was made because nursery workers deserve as much protection as teachers, despite not being in a union.

@Backbee

I expect plenty of outbreaks in nursery schools this month, and next. It's one of the few places humans still mix closely in significant numbers

Why? This has not happened previously.

We haven't had a covid Christmas + a new more infectious variant previously.

They won't close them as risk is very low - parents wouid then have to use grandparents which is far worse.