Will nurseries close now?

[Bathsheba1]

I have seen a increase in news reports about unison calling for early years to close, petitions, SAGE advice that it’s not the right thing to do keeping them open for all.

Do we think they will shut soon to protect the staff?

[quote AldiAisleofCrap]**@Chocolatte21Schools have not been closed because they are not unsafe. They have been closed to reduce the levels of transmission of the virus that’s the exact same thing![/quote]
Not really.

@MadeForThis

Ours is closing tomorrow

Private nursery? What’s the reason

Our local schools have been told they have to open their nurseries as normal.

I also think if they do close this time, young families will probably bubble with other families and grandparents (counter-productive).

Who pays the fees if children can’t go?

If ours is forced to close like last time I doubt they’d survive

I do think nursery staff should be vaccinated ASAP.

I'm in Scotland and ours are already keyworker and vulnerable children only. So I guess it could happen to you guys too ☹️

I doubt it. I was sent a long email from my DS’s nursery today explaining why they are allowed to open and the reasons it’s safe to do so.

In 5 months, we had one, asymptomatic case at my DS’ old nursery. It didn’t spread to anyone else within or outside the bubble.

His new nursery have been open as much as they’ve been allowed to be, and they haven’t had a single case.

None of my friends with kids in early years settings locally have had a single bubble burst during the pandemic.

We live in one of the areas with highest consistent covid rates in the country. Based on first hand experience, I don’t think they are inherently a vector for transmission.

If they close I’m not sure my mental health will be robust enough to cope, and my DS will suffer hugely. Im a lone parent, i work full time (from home now), can’t be furloughed and will be expected to keep working.

@Chessie678

I don’t think the rationale about protecting nursery staff makes sense unless you want to close nurseries until staff are vaccinated. Yes there’s a risk of covid in nurseries but that won’t go away in mid feb. Many staff in nurseries are quite young so won’t be vaccinated for months and children won’t be vaccinated for now.

Better protection for vulnerable staff until they are vaccinated might make sense I.e furloughing them if they request this. I suspect the percentage of nursery staff who are over 50 or cev is quite low.

And if they are closed many parents of young children will be forced into trying to care for them while working which isn’t practical or safe so yet again young children are put at risk. Or parents of young children - mostly mothers - give up work.

My youngest member of staff is 48, all others are well over 50. we even have a 72 yr old! We are actually well known for our mature highly experienced staff.

Most of our staff are quite rightly worried about their own heath, as some have vulnerable partners at home.

We all know the children themselves will probably be fine.

Cate what are you putting in place to lower risk? Are you a private nursery?

Email I received:

There has been a lot of confusion as to why Nurseries can remain open whilst schools and college have had to shut.
The Department of Education have shared the following information about the rationale behind Nurseries been able to remain open to all children,
The reason schools have been restricted is not that they are unsafe but because additional measures are needed to contain the spread of the virus. The wider restrictions in place as part of the national lockdown to contain the spread of the virus in the community enable us to continue prioritising keeping nurseries and childminders open, supporting parents and delivering the crucial care and education needed for our youngest children.

Early years settings remain low risk environments for children and staff. 0-5 year olds continue to have the lowest confirmed rates of coronavirus of all age groups, and there is no evidence that the new variant of coronavirus disproportionately affects young children.

Early years settings have been open to all children since 1 June and there is no evidence that the early years sector has contributed to a rise in virus cases within the community. Early evidence from SAGE showed that early years provision had a smaller relative impact on transmission rate than primary schools, which in turn had a smaller relative impact than secondary schools.
Early years childcare providers were one of the first sectors to have restrictions lifted last summer, in recognition of the key role they play in society. Childminders and nursery staff across the country have worked hard to keep settings open through the pandemic so that young children can be educated, and parents can work. The earliest years are the most crucial point of child development and attending early education lays the foundation for lifelong learning and supports children’s social and emotional development.

Early years aren't the most crucial to children's development though. Kids that don't go to nursery until they're three aren't generally disadvantaged compared to those that have been since they were one.

@Chessie678

I don’t think the rationale about protecting nursery staff makes sense unless you want to close nurseries until staff are vaccinated. Yes there’s a risk of covid in nurseries but that won’t go away in mid feb. Many staff in nurseries are quite young so won’t be vaccinated for months and children won’t be vaccinated for now.

Better protection for vulnerable staff until they are vaccinated might make sense I.e furloughing them if they request this. I suspect the percentage of nursery staff who are over 50 or cev is quite low.

And if they are closed many parents of young children will be forced into trying to care for them while working which isn’t practical or safe so yet again young children are put at risk. Or parents of young children - mostly mothers - give up work.

I work in a maintained nursery school - around 75% of our staff are 50+, and this is true of other similar settings that I know of. I imagine it's a different age profile in many private day nurseries. We also around 70 children on roll (all aged 3-4) and a set up that is very similar to most Reception classes, although our class size is not limited to 30 - we have a ratio of 1 adult to13 children, but on a typical session we have 30-40 children and 6 adults. The setting is totally open plan - we keep doors and windows open as much as we can, but obviously there is no social distancing at all and no PPE. If primary schools have been closed to all but key worker & vulnerable children, I cannot see any justification for not doing the same for nursery schools.

@eattolose

Not true. EY are critical. The first 1000 can change a child’s entire life changes- and particularly children from some disadvantaged backgrounds are overwhelmingly better off attending EY.

First 1000 days*

[quote AnaisNun]@eattolose

Not true. EY are critical. The first 1000 can change a child’s entire life changes- and particularly children from some disadvantaged backgrounds are overwhelmingly better off attending EY.[/quote]
From what age?

And yes, children from disadvantaged backgrounds will of course benefit.

But many children stay at home until they are three. Hence the 15 hours comes in to affect then.

@Inacoldclimate

Email I received:

There has been a lot of confusion as to why Nurseries can remain open whilst schools and college have had to shut.
The Department of Education have shared the following information about the rationale behind Nurseries been able to remain open to all children,
The reason schools have been restricted is not that they are unsafe but because additional measures are needed to contain the spread of the virus. The wider restrictions in place as part of the national lockdown to contain the spread of the virus in the community enable us to continue prioritising keeping nurseries and childminders open, supporting parents and delivering the crucial care and education needed for our youngest children.

Early years settings remain low risk environments for children and staff. 0-5 year olds continue to have the lowest confirmed rates of coronavirus of all age groups, and there is no evidence that the new variant of coronavirus disproportionately affects young children.

Early years settings have been open to all children since 1 June and there is no evidence that the early years sector has contributed to a rise in virus cases within the community. Early evidence from SAGE showed that early years provision had a smaller relative impact on transmission rate than primary schools, which in turn had a smaller relative impact than secondary schools.
Early years childcare providers were one of the first sectors to have restrictions lifted last summer, in recognition of the key role they play in society. Childminders and nursery staff across the country have worked hard to keep settings open through the pandemic so that young children can be educated, and parents can work. The earliest years are the most crucial point of child development and attending early education lays the foundation for lifelong learning and supports children’s social and emotional development.

I would rather listen to prof Calum Semple (SAGE)than the buffoons at DfE

BC Breakfast interviewed Professor Calum Semple, a virologist and member of Sage (the Government's Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies), who when asked if he could give any idea why early years settings were remaining open when schools were not, said ‘No, I can't’, and said that the decision to do so may be ‘political’ as it was not ‘a scientific one’.

Professor Semple said, ‘The reality is that, under these circumstances every opportunity to remove social mixing and work mixing of human beings is vitally important.

‘So, if a political decision has been made here to keep nurseries open in order to keep essential staff at work then that could be tempered by restricting the nursery capacity to those essential workers. But if we’ve gone to the point of closing the universities, secondary schools and primary schools on the grounds of public health, then I would be looking to close all other non-essential activities. And it may be that a political decision has been made here that nurseries are essential, but it’s not a scientific one.’

Also to say that schools had to close to allow essential education of under 4s? Fuck off! So the kids who are about to step in to adulthood are having their lives screwed over so the small kids can get a chance to play? This is so deeply unfair and untrue. It’s not the reason schools have closed at all.

@eattolose

Yes but those kids who don’t start to 3 haven’t been confined to their homes without seeing or playing with kids normally.
They would probably attend soft plays/music groups/toddler groups:playgrounds etc

Early years includes children from 6 month (sometimes younger) to school age.

We can just about a mange to work full time in a high pressure, high profile jobs whilst looking after and homeschooling a 5 year old, we cannot do it whilst looking after a 22 month old as well. Last time I nearly had a nervous breakdown abs not prepared to risk it again

If nurseries and childminders have to close again, parents will be forced to create more childcare bubbles which is much more risky.

I hope not, we use a childminder who only has one other child. If she closes it will be the option to leave my job, or for DS to go to my CEV family member whilst I work. We are both technically key workers and DH always works outside of the home and I can only work from home for a smallish % of the day.

[quote OverTheRainbow88]@eattolose

Yes but those kids who don’t start to 3 haven’t been confined to their homes without seeing or playing with kids normally.
They would probably attend soft plays/music groups/toddler groups:playgrounds etc[/quote]
There's nothing wrong with a child staying with their parents until they're three and then going to nursery.

@eattolose

I totally agree. What I was saying that pre covid those that didn’t attend nursery until 3 or not at all still had lots of opportunities to interact and play with other children, like at a toddler group. Whereas now they can’t.

@eattolose

Free hours actually comes in at 2 for lots of children. Those from the worst off families. I think that it’s important we recognise this- to say “at home to 3 (or 5)) is fine” is a privileged perspective. For many kids, it’s not fine. I’m not saying that trumps any other need/vulnerability in other groups- but it’s a fact.

My Childminder is still operating. I send my DC there at the moment because she only has a handful of kids there. I know where they go, who they come into contact with.

If she closes, we will have to send them to school, take up full time keyworker places when we only actually need part time hours and have my DC mixing with lots more Childminder.

Oh and still pay the Childminder so she doesn't go out of business.