Will nurseries close now?

[Bathsheba1]

I have seen a increase in news reports about unison calling for early years to close, petitions, SAGE advice that it’s not the right thing to do keeping them open for all.

Do we think they will shut soon to protect the staff?

If nurseries / childminders close I will be unable to work and therefore unpaid from work and unable to pay my rent. Simple as that. This is not the first thread on this and seems to mainly come from parents with primary aged kids who are out of school. Kids under 5 are the least affected covid group.

I think you're massively overestimating the extent to which the general public cares about the specific issue of nurseries, OP. I also feel like it's a huge burning issue right now because a) I have a nursery aged child and b) I spend too much time on MN but my colleagues and friends without children have universally not known whether or not nurseries are still open, or frankly much cared. Of all the things that the government might be forced into by public opinion I don't think this is likely to be one of them unless by 'public opinion' you mean 'the coronavirus page on MN'

I hope they don't, mainly for my friends, as for me if they do i will either use my key worker space i didn't use last time, or refuse to work and do childcare at same time again so i will be put on full paid leave (i can't be furloughed as civil servant).

I think its fine for nurseries to be open, transmission is really low and people need childcare to be able to work

In my experience from earlier in the year, there are 2 ways to safely care for a toddler while you're working from home and on calls or in online meetings:

1. Strap them into a pushchair with a chest strap across it so they can't wriggle out. Put the pushchair in front of the TV.

2. For younger toddlers, put them in a playpen that they can't escape from.

Neither is a particularly good solution for 8 hours a day. However, I found that all other options required actual supervision of said toddler and so were incompatible with working. Far easier to immobilise the toddler, shut the door on them and ignore their cries while you work.

I actually resorted to 1) in desperation for a very sensitive meeting which couldn't be interrupted. DS was very upset and kept saying "You not come, Mummy". I won't be doing that again which is why I, like many parents, won't be working if nurseries shut.

Hmmm. Take away furlough and the staff wont want to close.

Don’t give enough funding and it won’t stop private businesses closing and staff having no furlough anyway

I've got a reception aged child being home schooled and a 3 year old in nursery. DH and I are both WFH. The first lockdown almost broke me, I was crying with stress every day trying to do enough work to keep my job and look after the children. My then 2 year old fell down the stairs while I was on a call. If nursery closes I'll have to ask for an extended period of unpaid leave or quit. We can't afford it but will have to cope somehow because I can't do it again.

‘It's hard for those working parents, but I don't think that in can be argued that caring for a toddler and either trying to wfh is actually anymore challenging than wfh and trying to educate young primary aged children. ‘

This I’m afraid is utter tosh. I have a reception aged child and a 1yo. I can be fairly sure the 4yo won’t try to kill herself while lacking supervision. I can’t say that for the 1yo who is unsafe unless properly supervised. The 4yo can get on with things, do colouring, get appropriate snacks. The 1yo just causes carnage. One might be miserable being stuck at home while working but the other is potentially unsafe.

[quote Pesopasodoble]@Chessie678 I hadn't thought of this, they aren't on the vaccine schedule are they? So when will it be safe for nursery staff?[/quote]
Surely this is the same argument for teachers as well?

Head teachers wanted schools closed but why would a business owner?

It’s up to the business to make their staff safer

@Christmasfairy2020

Hmmm. Take away furlough and the staff wont want to close.

The same could be said of anyone on furlough, surely?

Why are people so
Obsessed with this - don’t use a nursery if you don’t want to!

Some people really need them open

@MotherExtraordinaire
Well I don’t think primary schools should be closed either for the same reason. Schools won’t magically become “safe” mid February so school closures will probably drag on for months though officially the rationale for closing them is meant to be due to overall community cases and not the safety of schools themselves. I think what we have done to all children this year is borderline state sponsored abuse and I’m not trying to argue for special treatment for nursery age children.

But there is no way I could work from home while looking after my 10m old. He spends most of his time pulling up on stuff and then falling down. If he doesn’t get my attention constantly he pulls at my leg and screams. He needs his nappy changing regularly. I spend 3-4 hours per day at work on conference calls advising clients and another 6+ writing legal advice. I don’t think anyone could do that while looking after a baby safely and am really surprised that someone who works with young children would suggest it. I might have the option of getting a nanny if that’s still allowed but many parents won’t.

@cate16 and @pinkpip100
I get that many nursery staff will be older and that puts them in a difficult and worrying position but why should all nurseries close on that basis. None of the staff at my son's nursery are over 40. If we need to wait until there is negligible risk of any of them getting covid nurseries will be shut for months, possibly years.

The demographic who work in nurseries will mostly not have been vaccinated by mid February. There will still be cases amongst young children and staff and they will probably grow the minute lockdown has lifted. Rates might fall due to lockdown but there will still be a non-trivial risk of someone at the nursery having covid. There’s only so much nurseries can realistically do to reduce the risk and still provide good childcare. The government has said that restrictions will start to be eased once priority groups have been vaccinated in February and pressure on hospitals eased. So why does it make sense to close all nurseries now if the plan is to open them in a couple of months time when the same considerations apply.

My fear is that once they are closed they won’t be opened for months because it will never be “safe” enough to guarantee that no one will get covid.

@MarshaBradyo

Head teachers wanted schools closed but why would a business owner?

It’s up to the business to make their staff safer

We have a headteacher, not an owner - maintained nursery school - the LA is our employer and they can't furlough anyone, CEV or not. We should have been treated the same way as Reception classes as fundamentally no difference.

Pink are you still open fully?

Ours isn’t here at the schools. Seems a mix. The only ones open are private.

@Heyahun I totally agree with you. People are not focused on the science but more fixated around how can nursery's open and schools closed. It's not fair. Blah blah.

I don't know any person with a nursery school aged child and working upset they are open. If you are, simply remove your child from nursery setting until whole population is vaccinated.
If you work in a nursery and your are concerned, speak to your employer!

@MarshaBradyo

Pink are you still open fully?

Ours isn’t here at the schools. Seems a mix. The only ones open are private.

Yes - a few parents have chosen not to send the children but the majority have done, regardless of whether they are at home or even whether they are working. There is so much confusion in the maintained sector as the majority of the govt advice is aimed at private nurseries - it's as if they don't realise we exist!!

It's hard for those working parents, but I don't think that in can be argued that caring for a toddler and either trying to wfh is actually anymore challenging than wfh and trying to educate young primary aged children

I totally disagree. Anyway can we get away from this nonsense that parents are "home educating". They are not. They are supervising the work done by their children set by the school because the schools have set work haven't they. Anyway, that aside, there's BBC Bitesize and Oak to park the kids in front of.

A toddler (or baby) on the other hand needs constant supervision and attention.

It is a nonsense to argue that they are in any way comparable situations.

I doubt that transmission levels are going to stay low once we leave this third lockdown. The only reason that we are locked down is because the NHS would become overwhelmed. Once the vulnerable have been vaccinated the NHS will not become overwhelmed even if transmission levels are high. That is why restrictions will start to be eased once the vulnerable are vaccinated.

@MarshaBradyo there has been no communication other that them saying at pickup that they will be closed from tomorrow.

I did ask if the girls would be ok and able to get furlough but she said that she didn't know. I find that shocking. They said they hoped to open again at the end of the month but weren't sure.

They closed totally during the last lockdown and we didn't have to pay any fees. I'm assuming it will be the same.

Mines been back in for 2 days after Christmas and is now isolating after spending the day with a postive case. Staff looked very unimpressed when I collected him today. However, yesterday they were sending out emails telling everyone to send their kids in as normal or pay for their places.

[quote Chessie678]@MotherExtraordinaire
Well I don’t think primary schools should be closed either for the same reason. Schools won’t magically become “safe” mid February so school closures will probably drag on for months though officially the rationale for closing them is meant to be due to overall community cases and not the safety of schools themselves. I think what we have done to all children this year is borderline state sponsored abuse and I’m not trying to argue for special treatment for nursery age children.

But there is no way I could work from home while looking after my 10m old. He spends most of his time pulling up on stuff and then falling down. If he doesn’t get my attention constantly he pulls at my leg and screams. He needs his nappy changing regularly. I spend 3-4 hours per day at work on conference calls advising clients and another 6+ writing legal advice. I don’t think anyone could do that while looking after a baby safely and am really surprised that someone who works with young children would suggest it. I might have the option of getting a nanny if that’s still allowed but many parents won’t.

@cate16 and @pinkpip100
I get that many nursery staff will be older and that puts them in a difficult and worrying position but why should all nurseries close on that basis. None of the staff at my son's nursery are over 40. If we need to wait until there is negligible risk of any of them getting covid nurseries will be shut for months, possibly years.

The demographic who work in nurseries will mostly not have been vaccinated by mid February. There will still be cases amongst young children and staff and they will probably grow the minute lockdown has lifted. Rates might fall due to lockdown but there will still be a non-trivial risk of someone at the nursery having covid. There’s only so much nurseries can realistically do to reduce the risk and still provide good childcare. The government has said that restrictions will start to be eased once priority groups have been vaccinated in February and pressure on hospitals eased. So why does it make sense to close all nurseries now if the plan is to open them in a couple of months time when the same considerations apply.

My fear is that once they are closed they won’t be opened for months because it will never be “safe” enough to guarantee that no one will get covid.[/quote]
To be honest us older staff just want to be given priority vaccination, then we would all be happy to stay open for all.
We are actually open in one of the England's highest infection areas.
We can stay open as our LA ha chosen to pay funding for children who's parents keep their children off. I this wasn't to happen we would have to close straight away.

@SamsMumsCateracts

Just a thought, the fact that under fives have the lowest confirmed cases is probably because a large number of parents don't want to put their very young children through what is an unpleasant test.

Yep.

I have a reception class and a year 1 child to homeschool and my 3 year old and 20 month old attending nursery and preschool or 2 days is the only way I can get school work done. DH working full time to try and salvage some sort of business, my own business disappeared last year and my part time degree has stalled yet again.

My year 1 child is still behind from the first lockdown, dread to think where he will be later this year. My 3 year old starts school in September and being in preschool will and is helping her be prepared for school life.

I was against school closures and against this. Our preschool and nursery are run by the same but on different sites, one is attached to the school. She openly admits the financial struggle last year caused and if she has to close again I doubt she will be there. Another business providing a vital service potentially closed.

@Bathsheba1

I used to work in the nursery industry and found there were plenty of 45 year plus staff. So they certainly aren’t all young and fit. Also the turnover is extremely high in nurseries due to low pay, high demands on staff so it didn’t surprise me to hear of a significant number handing in their notice given latest developments. It’s so low paid that it’s an easy for staff to switch to new employment or temporarily claim benefits.

Fucking hell 45 isn’t old And loads of people younger than that are unfit