If so many people wanted schools closed then why are some schools seeing up to 75% of children in?

[Waxonwaxoff0]

I have never wanted schools closed although I do recognise why they need to and that they need to be made safer.

Yet it seemed like I was in the minority, all over the internet people wanted schools closed and their children safely at home.

So why are so many trying to send their children in? Is it a case of "schools should be closed except for my child?"

And i know many will say they were never safe in the 1st place, but in many areas (mine included), community levels of transmission were low enough that there was no justification to close.

I don’t have school age kids, I wanted schools closed but only for the two weeks after Christmas. I have no idea how parents are supposed to work and homeschool their kids long term. It’s completely understandable that parents are taking up the key worker spaces now when they weren’t the first time.

The unions called for them to be closed.

I think part of the problem is that individual schools handled things so differently. I never commented on Nobelgiraffe's threads because I didn't recognise the scenarios that she described. DD has been wearing masks in the communal areas since Sept, in classes since Oct half term and the only time they aren't worn is outside or when eating inside. Teachers move from class to class, the kids stay in one room. Windows are kept open, coats worn indoors, loads of hand sanitiser, rules are strictly enforced - kids will be sent home if they don't obey them. As a result cases have been very very low and so parents feel their kids are safe and want them to attend.

If your child's school isn't like that I guess you'd be more reluctant to send them particularly if members of the family are vulnerable. I do think individual families should have been able to keep their kids home without fines or the threat of them being deregistered but I guess some families would have abused that and their child would slip even further behind.

No one I known in RL wanted schools closed; in fact they all feel shocked by the current situation.

What people do support Is school staff being vaccinated ASAP

@Waspnest

I think part of the problem is that individual schools handled things so differently. I never commented on Nobelgiraffe's threads because I didn't recognise the scenarios that she described. DD has been wearing masks in the communal areas since Sept, in classes since Oct half term and the only time they aren't worn is outside or when eating inside. Teachers move from class to class, the kids stay in one room. Windows are kept open, coats worn indoors, loads of hand sanitiser, rules are strictly enforced - kids will be sent home if they don't obey them. As a result cases have been very very low and so parents feel their kids are safe and want them to attend.

If your child's school isn't like that I guess you'd be more reluctant to send them particularly if members of the family are vulnerable. I do think individual families should have been able to keep their kids home without fines or the threat of them being deregistered but I guess some families would have abused that and their child would slip even further behind.

Exactly.

Personally it is really annoying that ds's college is closed as I and he feel it is as safe as any environment is going to be these days. The things that waspnest described were happening, along with the fact its a very new, purpose built building with large rooms, good ventilation and as an FE college they were allowed to do blended learning to make social distancing possible.

Dd's school on the other hand is appalling. She felt so unsafe, crowded corridors, classrooms with no ventilation etc etc. we complained to SLT. She ended up not going in for the last week of term because she was ill with the stress of it all. She's now having counselling. Covid ripped through the place (not surprising due to the lack of mitigations.

What people do support Is school staff being vaccinated ASAP

But we don't know that vaccination reduces transmission.

@hettyhooverdoover

The unions called for them to be closed.

Why is this being peddled? They asked for their members to work in a safe environment and schools were not safe and cases were rising in so many areas the government had to act just as they did last year too. I'm not a teacher by the way. Don't believe everything they write in the daily Mail or other online forums who tend to enjoy ' teacher bashing' for some reason I've never understood. Read other threads by staff on mumsnet who say they want to work but the way it was handled was wrong. Blame the government , not the unions for sticking up for their staff and they are still working from home , which is a lot more difficult than being in a classroom environment I would imagine. Much harder.

I don't like Boris, I don't support many of his policies.
But I would have some respect for him if he just made a bloody decision and stuck to it. We need some leadership.
Schools are safe, schools are closed, no they're not actually because everyone is now a key worker.
Parents are selfish, employers are selfish, teachers are selfish...we're all arguing amongst ourselves and its doing my head in.

Whatever you think is best, full lockdown or not, this half way, not quite anything, isn't doing anyone any favours.

Protect the NHS? Protect the economy? Protect education?
Whichever way we go we're all getting the worst of all worlds right now with none of the benefits.

@Waspnest

What people do support Is school staff being vaccinated ASAP

But we don't know that vaccination reduces transmission.

So they will never go back

I think a lot of people who wanted schools closed knew full well that they'd get a key worker place.

Because mumsnet doesn't reflect real life. I don't know a single person who actually wanted schools to close - except teachers. Now my child's school is emailing complaining that they have 'too many' critical worker children in and it's 'unsafe.' This was always going to happen. It's not going to change, and schools should still be open. All that's happening now is the punishment of children whose parents are not 'critical.'

I was happy when they decided to close schools. I didn't want them to have to close, but I could see that they needed to. Dd's class had to isolate a lot last term, so in some ways this is better for her, as she can go for walks and bike rides instead of being stuck in because someone in her bubble had the virus.

I think the key worker list has expanded. Some schools are being strict about who they will accept, but it does sound as if other schools are taking 20+ children per class, which doesn't seem like a closed school to me.

There were ideas floating around before re children attending school, part time, on a rota basis. That was blown out of the water as unworkable. Teachers don't feel safe teaching whole classes of children. Employers are less sympathetic this time. I honestly can't see what the answer is. Vaccinating teachers might help them feel safer, but we would still get the virus spreading through schools and into families, possibly with vulnerable people in the household. Numbers would still be rising exponentially then I assume.

Really difficult. I personally would have been fine with the rota idea, but remember people saying it couldn't work.

Well hopefully once all the vulnerable have been vaccinated levels of transmission will matter less. So even if your child brings Covid home, if vulnerable family members have been vaccinated the risk is less. The issue as I understand it is that not all people can have a vaccine.

That's my understanding anyway.

Oh but FWIW, there are only a handful of kids in dd's school at the minute. The vast majority are home learning.

People who think schools should not have closed, what would you propose as an alternative for keeping the NHS from collapsing?

@sashagabadon

Mumsnet is the polar opposite of real life imo. It is actually often the opposite of real opinion in real life. Plus there are a lot of trolls on the corona boards (and Mumsnet in general I think) at the moment. It seems like lots of people have taken up school places this time and I will take up my son’s place too maybe next week. I think that is a result of the utter mistrust in the unions as to when they will open schools again. I have no trust they will work with the government to open the schools fully again ASAP after their behaviour in May. But with more children in they will be less likely to be able to keep the schools closed indefinitely like last time as the parents whose kids are not in school will become more and more pissed off.

I agree. I’ve seen several posts off teachers ( supposed to be..) saying that even if they were given the vaccine they were scared of passing it on to immune compromised people even in the wider family of the pupil.

Covid isn’t going to disappear - the virus is still going to be floating about so with the theory of even if people were vaccinated they could still pass it on to immune compromised people ( which could happen with any virus) it makes me believe teachers dont want to go back at all. Which is fine. They should fined a WFH based job.

My school has zero cases whilst in term time - we had an email whilst in October school holidays stating two people had contracted the virus but it wasn’t linked to the school.

Our school ( private) has a lot of KW kids in. My two will be joining them next week.

@peardrops1

People who think schools should not have closed, what would you propose as an alternative for keeping the NHS from collapsing?

That’s not my problem or job spec to resolve. My role as a parent is to keep my children fed and housed. My role as an employer is to keep my staff in employment.

I followed the lockdown last time, was happy to keep my kids off school but this time I’m not. My finances are fucked and I cannot throw myself and children under the bus anymore.

Yeah I don't know how many kids in my DD's school are actually in. Most in her class are on the teams classes so I guess they're at home. The school said they were being quite strict about who could go in - kids without technology were actually made quite a high priority.

Most of the noise on MN wasn't actually asking schools to close anyway. The vast majority of people were asking the government to implement safety measures to keep the schools open. But for some reason a very vocal minority heard suggestions to help keep schools open as close the schools. Its very bizarre. So i imagine the number who wanted them to stay open unchanged, plus the number who wanted them to stay open with additional safety measures would form a majority.

People who think schools should not have closed, what would you propose as an alternative for keeping the NHS from collapsing?

I didn't want my DD's school to close because as I said above, the school were handling it brilliantly but I accept that things have got so bad that they had to close. It is possible to hold both views.

Hopefully if the vaccine rollout goes to plan things will be a lot better by mid Feb.

That’s not my problem or job spec to resolve. My role as a parent is to keep my children fed and housed. My role as an employer is to keep my staff in employment.

Wow just Wow!

@Wakeupin2022

That’s not my problem or job spec to resolve. My role as a parent is to keep my children fed and housed. My role as an employer is to keep my staff in employment.

Wow just Wow!

Do you need a strong brandy?

I didn't want schools to close.
Meet both have to work. My DH is KW. My kids have gone in. School about 7% of normal capacity so stop
Spreading this drivel.

People here in Mumsnet wanted schools to close for other people's children, not their own. Hence the slew of posts regarding KW places not being available even though they MUST do so-and-so's accounts as an accountant..

I've really gone off MN now. They're is a significant shrill portion who can't see beyond their middle class lives to the children without WiFi, lunch, a safe home. Any dissenting voice gets screamed at - liberal use of "oh do fuck off" like that's cool when they're over 30.