If so many people wanted schools closed then why are some schools seeing up to 75% of children in?

[Waxonwaxoff0]

I have never wanted schools closed although I do recognise why they need to and that they need to be made safer.

Yet it seemed like I was in the minority, all over the internet people wanted schools closed and their children safely at home.

So why are so many trying to send their children in? Is it a case of "schools should be closed except for my child?"

The criteria for who can attend has widened to now include those who have no access to a device, quiet space to study or who's mental health is being affected. Which at this stage includes a huge amount of children.

I never wanted the schools to close. Its hugely affecting my DC mental health. It's not a case of simply moving to online learning it's not that simple. The provision for 2 out of my 3 children is an absolute mess.

@Bettina500

The criteria for who can attend has widened to now include those who have no access to a device, quiet space to study or who's mental health is being affected. Which at this stage includes a huge amount of children.

I never wanted the schools to close. Its hugely affecting my DC mental health. It's not a case of simply moving to online learning it's not that simple. The provision for 2 out of my 3 children is an absolute mess.

We are shooting ourselves in the foot by punishing children like this

i got shouted at every time I said out loud that I wanted schools open. I have 2 kids with differing needs who need their places at school. I am technically a key worker but I am WFH. I have a letter to give to the school should I need a place but for now we are trying to muddle our way through this the best we can to give the NHS a break- however if my kids begin to suffer again like they did in the last lockdown I will use my letter to get them a place.

I got accused on facebook of hating teachers when I suggested they should be pushing their unions and even parents to fight for them to be included in the top 4 groups who should get the vaccine first. If teachers had better protection including PPE and kids adhearing to SD and safety measures in school I think it would be possible for them to open, even if they were only teaching core subjects and having 1 year group in each day it would be better than this!

My son is due to start his GCSE's next year and I don't think he will be in anyway ready because of the amount of school and actual teaching he has missed. He has dyslexia and is already behind his peers. He receives a lot of 121 help at school and additional lessons to help with his literacy and understanding of basic English. This has all stopped now. I feel sad for him.

Attendance is going to be much higher at the primary school ds used to go to right next to the local hospital where well over half the parents are medics or associated than at the local rural primary where we both now live.

@catatecheese

Nobody in real life wanted schools closed. A few but very vocal people on the internet are not the majority ( also you don't even know if these vocal ones actually have children!). I doubt anyone sending a child to school at the moment ( key wotkers and vulnerable) said they wanted them closed.

That's not true.

I actually have the opposite experience where plenty of people wanted them closed or rather numbers reduced and remote learning where possible for families.

You're never going to have 100% consensus.

"If there was more space and there were smaller classes etc., we would have a much better chance of keeping schools open and not having adverse consequences."

Can I ask - people who know - has there been much exploration of the idea of using all other available spaces so that social distancing would be more possible - every conference centre, village hall, hotel function space, church hall, church etc - to give schools more space? Is it completely impractical for a teacher and teaching assistant and class to be 'decamped' elsewhere? (It may be - I know nothing about running schools! and I can see there would be health and safety, child protection aspects - but it would be interesting to know if those alternatives have been rejected, and if so why.)

Our school has about 10 percent attendance currently so nowhere near some of the levels others are reporting. Our daughter didn’t require a space first lockdown as she’s in Reception, however she is in school this lockdown. We’re both key workers but do work from home, but need to be able to actually work from home. Normal working hours for both of us require evening work on top of full time hours, there just isn’t enough hours in the day for us to not use the entitled provision.

@Aixenprovence

"If there was more space and there were smaller classes etc., we would have a much better chance of keeping schools open and not having adverse consequences."

Can I ask - people who know - has there been much exploration of the idea of using all other available spaces so that social distancing would be more possible - every conference centre, village hall, hotel function space, church hall, church etc - to give schools more space? Is it completely impractical for a teacher and teaching assistant and class to be 'decamped' elsewhere? (It may be - I know nothing about running schools! and I can see there would be health and safety, child protection aspects - but it would be interesting to know if those alternatives have been rejected, and if so why.)

schools were told they could not do this.

Secondary schools also asked for blended learning so they had for example children in for part of the week, then completing set tasks at home the other half to give more space.

The governemnt told them this wasn't allowed.

That's interesting - do we know why? I realise it wouldn't be ideal, but would be interesting to know why it was an absolute no.

I think most people are fairly neutral on it. MN is full of teaching and school support staff who are very vocal about their wishes; IRL everyone I know is a bit "meh well whatever. If they close they close, if they're open they're open". And everyone works- employers are being far less free and easy than before so far more people need childcare. It's easy to say "suck it up and keep your kids off for the good of all" if you're not the one facing losing your job over it.

And that is also interesting! Again would be interesting to know why - or am I reviving a debate that has been raging for months? Just wondering whether part-time and different locations could be looked at now, for a few weeks time?

@Aixenprovence

And that is also interesting! Again would be interesting to know why - or am I reviving a debate that has been raging for months? Just wondering whether part-time and different locations could be looked at now, for a few weeks time?

Yes, this debate has been raging for months. It's why teachers are so cross. They have been asking for some fairly simple, common sense measures since September and have been repeatedly told np.

My son's college put in place many of these measures (FE colleges have more freedoms than schools) My daughter's 6th form did not. Both had cases but covid spread through lots of students and teachers at dd's school where as it seemed pretty contained at d's college.

I'm sure primary teachers/heads were also coming up with similar measures approriate to that age group they wanted implemenmting.

@unmarkedbythat

I think most people are fairly neutral on it. MN is full of teaching and school support staff who are very vocal about their wishes; IRL everyone I know is a bit "meh well whatever. If they close they close, if they're open they're open". And everyone works- employers are being far less free and easy than before so far more people need childcare. It's easy to say "suck it up and keep your kids off for the good of all" if you're not the one facing losing your job over it.

This is very true.

There has been two very competing voices - shut all schools and then the likes of some corners of U4T who are wanting absolutely no measures in place whatsoever. Most people will accept a little bit of give and take.

It’s across at least 4 different counties across north and south not to mention the anecdotal evidence of here @whittystitties

As I like facts and because this is likely to go on i am going to submit a freedom of information request into the DOE . Then we can see the actual numbers and impact

whittystitties
You can walk with a different person every day if you’re in England?

I was constantly saying on many threads here I wanted schools open. The nastiness, aggression, accusations thrown at me were constant. If any 1 of those people shooting me down then has still sent their child to school, whatever your circumstances: you are truly vile. Hang your head in shame you hypocrites. This is horrendous, as I knew it would be.

We are shooting ourselves in the foot by punishing children like this

@whittystitties whether you agree with restrictions or not there’s no need to frame it like this. There is no ‘punishing’ going on. No one has done anything wrong that needs to be punished.

Honestly it’s no wonder people are really struggling with this whole thing if they’re taking this view point.

@unmarkedbythat, is it true that MN is full of teaching and school staff or just just they're really skilled at shouting the loudest so that's the way it seems? Certainly they've spent a lot of time and effort making sure they're making headlines and keeping their woes and worries centre stage in the national media... No other key working profession has behaved like this...I thought they were completely busy and overwhelmed?!

I'm normally very pro Union but the performance of the teaching unions recently has been a disgrace. Before I get flamed I have quite a few teacher friends who believe that the risk has been over amplified and kids should be in school, however they've been cowed into submission by the "it's not safe!!!" brigade... And darent speak.

The primary my DS is in has introduced a tiered system for key workers due to demand. The letter identifed 2 priorities, public safety first, and teacher safety second. Not one single sentence about children's well being, not one. They also stated children are safest at home, this isn't true. Children are at very low risk from covid. And in the child health world in "normal" times if you met a child with a disproportionate fear of a "killer" virus you'd be questioning where that belief had come from and thinking about safeguarding that child's emotional well being.

Tbf a lot of teachers wanted this as well on threAds on here , they say they wanted safer schools , well realistically this is the only way to make them safer , all wearing a mask with numbers this high was never going to make them safer.
But awful lot of people who are using provision foe convenience if you believe mn but also many that still have to work but do not meet criteria.

@Comefromaway but how could that realistically be achieved ? How can you have smaller classes.? Schools don't generally have lots of spare classrooms and we don't have spare teachers , and if you say blended learning then still the same issue.
Same as tests , yet it shows you don't have it the day of the test.
Some schools were ar breaking point and kids were being sent home regularly as bubbles burst .

@Nerdygirl

This has really made me angry . I am seeing and hearing loads of schools with 50% plus occupancy and parents who work in non essential roles but they happen to be in a certain sector like telecoms, financial services , retail but all from home .

I fully support children going in because of key workers working away from home and where there would be significant impact on mental health of the child or parent but there are a lot of people taking the piss

I am in a very senior role and constantly presenting/being interviewed and I have to juggle this from home. Which means 12 hour plus days ! So excuses that you can’t expect to work from home and teach your children didn’t wash with me

My kids only have 12 in their class at normal times and now they are remote learning and will be stuck with this for months as everyone seems themselves a key worker and the virus numbers don’t go down. I could technically get my kids in on key worker status but I won’t as I am towing the line for collective good

Makes me angry at these comments as people are not coping As well as you !!! And everyone had different reasons

@Jocasta2018

I have a married couple of key workers in my family - they have 2 children. Back in March they didn't take up their places in the schools - they were coping & managers were sympathetic, etc, etc. This year however they've sent their children in. Their workloads have increased over the last year & managers are no longer as understanding.

This is my predicament too

@Aixenprovence

That's interesting - do we know why? I realise it wouldn't be ideal, but would be interesting to know why it was an absolute no.

That's been the multi million dollar question since April when untions, heads etc all wanted a discussion with the government about safe opening. Unfortunately at that time the refused to engage and then suddenly announced a random plan (with no guidance) and when asked, again, to engage in discussion started their ridiculous mantra of labour and unions wanting to keep schools shut.

Then we had September opening and suggestions were rotas, blended learning, use of libraries, centres, empty offices etc and they said no.
They then wrote guidance that also said they won't fund for the cleaning etc that needs doing extra and masks shouldn't be worn.

They relented with masks at some point in corridors dependent on tiers but again - wasn't clear and then it went to all corridors. Again advised against masks for teaching.

During this time "bubbles" were changed so only close contacts isolated and not whole classes because schools were shutting left right and centre.

PHE handed over track and trace to DfE and data stopped being recorded, was surprised hidden or whatever actually happened to it.

The it began that schools were advising teachers shouldn't isolate with cases because they shouldn't be in close contact for more than 15 minutes with a student. It didn't matter they'd be a room with a case for up to 6 hours a day.

Then schools in London wanted to switch to remote learning due to high rise in cases and were threatened with legal action.

Then term started. Then they locked down!

In between that secondaries and colleges wanted a discussion about alternative ways of assessing over the year as a contingency plan but were refused. Then government cancelled exams.

I honestly believe if Gavin Williamson wasn't so utterly shit at his job, tories weren't so utterly egotistical and so utterly against unions we could have made education so much better for our children this year despite the devastating pandemic.

And just when you couldn't think they would and could stoop much lower Gavla is now encouraging parents to complain to ofsted if they don't like the provision when poor heads and teachers are now scrambling about trying to re plan after being told they wouldn't close and opening schools on Monday.

My worry is it won't improve because they won't engage and Gavla won't get sacked.

Also lets not forget that the unions were calling for section 44 or whatever to be used, and how can you make schools safe with such high rates , masks maybe when numbers are low. But people
Talking about sd and smaller classes how would that be possible?
Employers can use furlough for staff and many were quick to last time but this time only a fraction have closed compared to the last time and keyworkers seems to be almost everybody. Not sure i agree with costa / kfc etc all open as if only meant to be going for essential journey ( drive thru and delivery maybe) its basically a november lockdown with maybe half kids out if school. Would of preferred a harsh 4 week lockdown to really drive down numbers.